JustInFacts

Hmm, I wasn't aware that the company had taken away the pension, lowered pay rates, and started furloughing. I guess the sky really is falling.

hercretired

uh, come again?

Cocoloco

.

I didn't say all. I said so many. FDX also flies way more than UPS. This is also the reason for 2000 more pilots. Just look at any Asia gateway. FDX has three times the birds on the ramps than Brown. SIN, KIX, NRT, STN, HKG, etc.

Freighthumper

If you take a look at what has happened to some our very junior people, you'll see that some people have absolutely had their pay rates lowered. On top of the low BLGs, many were displaced out of wide body positions to narrow body with a lower pay rate. Many were also forced out of a base, or are now have to commute to ANC with a shotgun schedule to keep the WB pay rate. Sky isn't falling for me, but it's pretty dark for the guys on the bottom of the list. While the pension isn't gone, pancake man sure tired his best to start getting rid of it.

Moneybags

Spoiler. The pension will end one way or another, just like they have most places.

You guys criticizing managements’ decisions and direction of the company, yet want to depend on the same company to manage their pension through retirement make no sense.

These same pilots also want to keep flying low yielding freight no matter the cost. Ask yourself how negative profit margins would impact the future of the company and your pension? With all the cost cutting Express is still only at a 2.3% margin.

CloudSailor

Stop the pancake man narrative, please. He's out.

Maybe with underline and bold you will get it: The ONLY way the pension goes, is with US voting it away.

Please understand that the lowly and miniscule pension you perceive to have, it is paid to you with less sweat off your brow. Do you get the concept of high 5 and then taking it easy for at least some of your years here, instead of flying your a$$ into an early grave for having to earn every dollar paid out under another B plan with a different name?

The mentality of "I'm senior, I got mine, screw the junior guys as I walk out the door with extra $ while those who come after me will pay for it as their QOL goes downhill" is going away. Finally. I am thankful.

WE IMPROVE WHAT WE HAVE, A STEP AT A TIME. WE don't GIVE SH*T UP!! Just like our bros at UPS. If you won't listen to anyone here, listen to them posting on here warning about how our stupidity in insisting to give away the pension and how that will not only hurt us, but contract pattern bargaining at all other carriers, specifially Brown.

We make our best Professional effort to leave this airline a better, not worse, place to fly from how we arrived to it - regardless of what the company will fumble next.

Moneybags

Yep. That’s the only way you can lose a pension. Might want to ask the pax airlines in the mid 2000’s. Or even more recently, Sears.

“When Sears Holdings filed for bankruptcy in October 2018, it faced significant financial challenges, including funding its pension obligations. As part of the bankruptcy proceedings, Sears terminated its underfunded pension plans, which included the Sears Holdings Pension Plan and the Kmart Pension Plan.The Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation (PBGC), a government agency that insures private-sector pension plans, took over the responsibility for paying pension benefits to eligible retirees of Sears. However, PBGC guarantees have certain limits, and some retirees may have seen reductions in their benefits as a result.

Overall, the fate of Sears' pension plans illustrates the financial strain faced by the company and the challenges associated with funding pension obligations in bankruptcy proceedings.”

Oh. And what about inflation? A 130k pension is worth half that in 25 years. What about in 40 years? Even less. That’s why a fixed payment retirement scheme is antiquated.

But guess what, there’s a way we both get what we want in the next TA, by giving pilots a choice.

Huck

I'll say it again. Find an old United guy and ask him what a pension's worth....

I've been advocating to get rid of it for 22 years. I do not count it in my financial planning. I will not have my finances tied to Fedex's management until I die.

We voted that down. Lord knows what's coming next.

Maddog64

We voted down pay rates and back pay. Had those 2 items been industry leading I think it would have passed.

NotMrNiceGuy

For those retiring in 20+ years, a pension that was dying on the vine wasn’t an option in TA1. That means you were forced to go with the MBCBP. That 9%/11% ratio was tied to pay rates 10% below industry average. Yes, the rates were cause for a no vote. But the retirement was inseparable from rates in this scheme for junior people. So you can’t differentiate between the two. Retirement was my primary reason for no. Immediately followed by scope. Then rates. There’s a reason the surveys said over 80% believed retirement was insufficient.

There’s a scenario where if retirement was improved and rates stayed the same, I would vote yes (assuming scope improvements). However, if retirement stayed the same and rates were industry leading, I’d still be a no.