kwri10s

Well perhaps, but Dart after Dart and reply after reply from various reps all say the same thing. They don't know as the data is the companies.

Anomjnom12

….they can’t even get a ballpark figure? GMAB.

Yuko

This needs to be common knowledge. Know our value!

JustInFacts

Not neccessarily. That all depends on the current funding level of the plan. There is a range of funds to obligations ratios that are considered fully funded. That ratio can also be underfunded, which we aren't, and overfunded. There is also a maximum limit of funding that can not be exceeded.


First, $117,000 times the 5700 number of pilots that has been used (we are currently around 5550) would be the $666,900,000 number you came up with as the insurance cost. That's only 75% of your $900 million number. You don't add in the benefit payment to that number because the payment comes out of the funding.

Second, in 2021 the company voluntarily contributed $200 million and in 2022, they voluntarily contributed $500 million. No contributions were required because the plan was fully funded. That is $700 million in voluntary contributions in two years. So you are telling me that the company couldn't make that payment for the pension increase?

Maddog64

First, $117,000 times the 5700 number of pilots that has been used (we are currently around 5550) would be the $666,900,000 number you came up with as the insurance cost. That's only 75% of your $900 million number. You don't add in the benefit payment to that number because the payment comes out of the funding.

The union has consistentely told us for every dollar we get the insurance funding is 3 times as much. the hit to the ballance sheet is 666,900,000 for the funding and 214,500,000 to the pilots for a total payout of 881,400,000 using 5500 pilots.

Idaho

I would believe that the pension has onerous cost to the company. If the market tanks, who wants to be responsible for making fixed payments? On the other hand, it sounds like many of us are dying at increasingly young ages due to immunity issues, cardiac events, complications of the latest flu and its cure. Life expectancy has gone down as any insurance company can tell you. I have little control over retirement, pension debasement, mob rule in our contract vote, and then there is the 401k where I can gamble in the rigged stock market, and the government can change the rules at any time on the tax, distribution, investments allowed, and contribution. The pension is leverage, if we give it up for an hourly rate increase we'll be back in the same boat, albeit 9 years later based on current precedent.

Maddog64

FedEx drives $200 million into pension funds, plans additional $600 million Pensions & Investments (pionline.com)

This article claims that our pension has a shortfall of 1.6 billion. yes the contributions are voluntary as we are close to covering our expected liabilities, but during 2021 and 2022 we were making record revenue. I would think that would have been a good time to fix any future funding issues. We were also hiring like crazy, every one of those pilots are covered by the pension. Maybe, just maybe the company was looking ahead to their future pension obligations while making these voluntary funding decisions. Had we voted for the TA, the plan would have then been an additional 900 million short, potentially reaching an underfunded situation requiring massive investment in a short amount of time.

JustInFacts

No, what has been said is that it costs the company $3 for every $1 of benefit increase. That is very different than what you are saying. The insurance is through the PBGC and is nowhere near the amount you claim. Here is a link to help you out. https://www.pbgc.gov/prac/prem/premium-rates

No, our pension isn't underfunded. There are many variables that go into that funding formula, and like I said earlier, there is a range of ratios that are considered fully funded. We are also not the only employee group that is in that pension fund. I don't know what else to tell you, your math is wrong. Your insurance cost is wrong. You don't know/understand the funding of the pension. According to you, almost $700 million would have gone for insurance. Then you say you have to add the benefit payment into that cost. So each year, the benefit increase would cost the company an additional $900 million. Over the 4.5 years of TA1, that would be just over $4 billion more. That is more than the stated increase in contract cost. Again, you math and statements are just wrong.

Maddog64

The 39,000 pension increase was only a 1time deal. Not every year for 4 years

Maddog64

I didn't say it us underfunded. I said this story claims it has a shortfall to pay future liabilities. It only has 95% of the money it needs to pay all its bills. The law sets what is considered fully funded. My comment was that the company was making voluntary contributions when times were good, all the while looking at the large crop of new hires, knowing that their pension obligations would increase. I don't know if they hadn't made the 700 million in contributions but added 1500 pilots to the pension would it still be "fully funded".