MaxRange

If you distill down just the basics of the operation, then you will find striking similarities. Do you have friends at UPS? If so, ask them their honest down and dirty explanation of the operation, especially if they are NOT senior. Get their side on domestic and international. Is there union drama? Guarantee it.

What you will find is the vast majority of the flying centers around the sorts i.e. land at 11pm, sit there with your dunce cap on, talk with a friend about how the company screwed you this week, watch yourself and your peers sleep walk, then launch at 3-4am to go try to sleep in a hotel from the hours of 8am till 7pm.

Sure, there are some outlyer trips that do none of that...it's what you call the exception.
*old guy chimes in with: I haven't done AM hub turns in 15 years!*

Grease

Relatively junior Brown guy here (~4 years) With any of these threads, the most disgruntled, cynical voices seem to crow the loudest. That being said, the two companies do have some differences. Purple has paused hiring while Brown is hiring at a robust clip. Brown is likely to see an increase in day flying due to the USPS contract that is transitioning from Purple to Brown. Both companies are in negotiations for a new contract, but the negotiating climates appear to be different for each. You should also be near the front end of a hiring wave, which should get you decent seniority relatively quickly, giving you a better chance of bidding what you want. Elder statesman like Boiler Up can expand further and more competently than I can.

No job is all roses, and also no job is all shyte sandwiches. You could be very happy here if you choose to be. I definitely am.

Thrust Hold

We're 3 years into negotiations. It's nothing but negativity around here now days. Don't let these fellas sport *****ing deter you. Just do your research on UPS and FedEx from posts outside of the negotiations timeframe and you'll see far different posts. Sure we've got our warts, but so does every airline. Not an old guy, not very senior, and I rarely hub turn. When I do, I get a two hour nap during the sort. Living in domicile makes this a completely different job. Commuting is a choice. Best of Luck to you at UPS!

cessnapilot

It should probably be in a different thread, but since you have a CJO, I'll add my .02

I've worked for a few airlines, including TWA and Northwest... and I've been at brown for 17+ years.

I definitely felt like more of a "team" and valued at the other carriers. UPS has been known for a history of "us" vs "they" in the labor field. If you can't make a reserve callout due to traffic, you won't get in trouble, but you'll lose money and they'll push you to do everything to get there. At my wifes workplace they're more like "get here when you can and don't speed. stay safe" You'll never hear that at UPS. If you deviate from a scheduled airline routing on you schedule to come from your home airport instead of the domicile... and then say there is a mechanical or weather... you'll lose money. Even though it could just as easily happen on the scheduled flights. It may just be a show at other carriers to make you feel "wanted" and "part of a team" but I have to say, it felt better in that environment! Crew scheduling has never done me any favors. I'm amazed at the different tone at my wifes company... one of the big 3.

The majority of the work at brown is still night hub domestic sort. I like the week on and week off schedule, but I don't like flying night sorts. Go jumpseat in the system, if you can, to see what you think. It's brutal on your body. You'll get most weekends off, even if junior, which is nice. The block hours tend to be much less. Like 40 hours a month rather than the 80 at the big 3. But it's back side of the clock for a lot of it. If you live in base, you have more options. Turns, shorter trips, some day turns, etc.

You aren't at the front of the wave. UPS has been hiring significant numbers for a few years. They did an early buyout of 200 guys, and so the manditory retirements will slow for the next year or two, but we're still hiring for the USPS contract. After we get a new contract I'm sure you'll see a few extra leave. The historical data has been more like guys leaving at 62 or 63. Manditory retirements are something like 33 next year, 78 in 2026, 88 in 2027, and then it picks up to 150+ a year. You'll definitly see better than those numbers as most don't stay until 65. I think you'll see nice steady continued progression for some time to come.

International. I like the international a lot, but the trips are longer. I think its a lot better than the big 3 international options, but it takes more seniority at SDF. If you have a young family it can be difficult to be gone for 12 days. There are shorter trips too, but if you're commuting to ANC, it isn't easy. Unlike the big 3, it's not usually an out and back. You'll spend time in Asia or Europe or going a lap around the world. Usually there are a couple of longer layovers where you can get out and see some things. The Z international, which is the 767, has a lot of domestic night stuff if you're junior. It takes currently about 4 years seniortiy to hold better lines in SDF. ANC 747 is more junior, but there is the commute for many people. And mind you that you don't really get to choose the 747 when you're hired. UPS will assign that. If you're in the day 2 class and get the 75 you can switch to Z, but if you're Airbus, expect the first 2 years to be stuck. There will be more day flying now with USPS, but thats a 5 year contract and it can be lost in the future... and that would definitly be felt. Ask our brothers and sisters at Purple.

Then there is the first year pay. I'm sure you've seen that. Ugly.

Good luck! I hope this helps with your decision. I like my job and there are many aspects that I find better. I never really minded passengers, but it's a lot different today. Terminals are overcrowded and pax are upset. I don't miss gate agents. Easy to get to the jet and hotels usually waiting to pick you up. The union is solid. The group is unified. I think were all on the same page.

Temocil27

it’s all cyclical in this business. Go back a few years and we were kicking booty and UPS wasn’t hiring. Now we celebrate adding a new 757 to Honduras while UPS takes more day flying than they can handle. Just go to the company that gives you the best commute and least stress while on the clock. We’re all mostly happy with each other while at work but this negotiation cycle sure has been a doozy as far as making me never trust the company again for any reason. Also, if any manager ever says “Bravo Zulu” again I’m going to vomit. Just get us an Amazon gift card already.

CloudSailor

Up until 2022, I would have said - take the job with UPS but keep updating your FDX resume. Similar flying at both. Both were companies looking at the long-term. But today, even without a crystal ball, the long-term decisions at Brown are in your best interest for a career there.

FDX, once considered in everyone's top 5 airline jobs, is trying what they can to outsource our jobs. It's still a great gig today. However, the next 2-5 years could get ugly enough that purple won't even be in guys' top 10 of places to make a career.

Management even offered cash for the "good option" to resign from the FDX seniority list and fly for PSA. Yeah, that's not a joke.

Take the job at UPS. Great career opportunity, in spite of their union-hardened management.

JustInFacts

Really???? How much cash did Fedex management offer to pay from Fedex to go fly for PSA?

middies10

I'm very confident that the PSA deal was offered at UPS as well.

airplanes

UPS sent the PSA invite to everyone who took the early retirement—not to the whole pilot group. And neither FedEx or UPS was putting up any of that money.

PlaneFlyer

I used to fly for UPS, but now I’m at a legacy passenger carrier. I agree with cessnapilot’s comments regarding UPS. I will say that flying passengers is pretty much just like flying boxes because I really don’t deal with passengers very much. I really don’t mind the terminals or TSA and if you commute at UPS, you’ll still have to deal with them just the same.

The relationship between UPS and its pilots is very transactional. You’re just another piece of equipment fulfilling a specific function. The same can be said of other air carriers, but it’s more pronounced at UPS in my opinion. Don’t take it personal, use the contract to your advantage and you’ll be fine.

Night flying at FedEx or UPS is really early morning flying and I don’t think that your body ever really gets used to it, unless you plan to keep the same sleep schedule on your non-duty days.

You’ll eventually be paid very well and the flying is easy.

UPS and FedEx don’t currently have the same struggles. Most of the issues raised in this thread are unique to FedEx.

Avoid commuting if possible.