Joachim

“You couldn’t pay me to fly pax”

= I’m insecure about being a cargo pilot.

“Hub turns at night is physically exhausting and potentially unhealthy”

= truth

AZFlyer

I flew pax for several years before joining FedEx. I don't miss the pax world at all. It's not necessarily because you're frequently dealing with ridiculous people or crazy situations, because the truly crazy stuff is pretty rare. For me it has a lot more to do with completely eliminating are large swathe of more typical operational challenges that can impede the process of getting an airplane off or on the gate. Some examples: international departure but a pax is missing - their checked bags have to be located in the baggage compartment and removed from the plane before we can leave. Delayed. We ran out of seat belt extenders because we have more big people on board today than usual - call mx to have more seat belt extenders brought out to the plane. OR this happens while you're at podunkville regional airport and there are no more seat belt extenders available - sorry, no flight for you, deny boarding. Delayed. Land during bad weather, ramp closes due to lightning, but you've got no APU, it's hot as balls, and the lav is over flowing because everyone is using it during the 60+ minute delay to deplane. Elderly people ****ing themselves in their seats. Weird stuff like this is not unusual. Then there's just the daily bag drag thru the terminals, trying to get around throngs of people that have no idea what they're doing.

On their own, none of these types of things are cataclysmic in the grand scheme of things. You solve each problem as they come and get on with things, but it's NICE to entirely remove this element of the job. This is what comes to my mind when people say they don't miss pax flying, assuming they've done pax flying in the first place.

Viper25

I see. So overall, it sounds like people agree that flying pax really isn’t that bad, and that the night schedules are far more impactful than operating with pax?

Corndawg88

I would like to second this. 80% of the headaches left the job when you don’t have people in the back. The most exhausting/frustrating nights in cargo, are NOTHING compared to a day in the passenger world.

Viper25

It is posts like this one that led to my initial question a few posts back.

Corndawg88

I would argue that if you paid pilots by that metric (the harder job). Regional pilots would get paid better then their legacy counter parts.

I am sure you would agree, that what we all get paid and what we all deserve are two very different things.

Commuter56

I think it is more of a personality difference than a level of difficulty. Some people love walking through the terminal in their spiffy uniform with all the people. They enjoy and thrive in an environment where they get to make announcements to the passengers, solve the issues talked about above, and be in the public eye. Others, like me, would show up in a pair of coveralls and climb a ladder to the flight deck to avoid having to interact with the traveling public. I did it for a long time and I was good at it, I just never particularly enjoyed it. Freight takes the passenger and flight attendant out of the equation, but has it's own set of complications. Never had to worry about compatible haz in the pax world. Never did a reduced mins EFVS approach to a secondary airport with a can full of explosives, spontaneously combustibles, and oxidizers 10 feet behind me. Never had to put on oxygen masks for an engine start because all the dry ice was setting off the CO2 monitors as soon as we shut off the packs for start. Never found myself on a CAT III ILS at 0430 after being up all night. Also never once had to wrap a bottle of water in the pax world, sometimes it's nice to have flight attendants. All trade offs that people make, not so much on level of difficulty, but on personality and what appeals to your personal wants in a flying career. Anyone that says cargo is easier and therefore less deserving of legacy pay is just showing their ignorance. For every cargo pilot that could never imagine working for a legacy, I bet I could find a legacy pilot that would never consider FedEx or UPS.

Freight

100% agree, there are a lot of trade offs. Easier in some aspects and way more difficult in others. But, the idea we should be paid less because “we don’t have to deal with passengers” is laughable. I’d love to see them do our hub turns for a week.

Viper25

I completely agree. I don’t think cargo pilots should be paid any less. The initial question is should cargo pilots be paid a premium for their type of flying, as I see that argument made here and I’ve heard it myself in person as well. That said, as another poster stated above, any argument in negotiations to be paid a premium should be considered.

NotMrNiceGuy

I think it’s noteworthy that a few carriers offer an override for operating flights during the Window of Circadian Low.

Additionally, If I’m not mistaken, SWA prevents these operations entirely. I think that speaks to an increased level of difficulty.

Many non-aviation jobs offer premium pay for graveyard shifts.

I remember naively attending and OBAP/WAI conference years ago and the FedEx pilots said the company was proud to offer premium pay and vacation due to the more challenging work environment.

If the cargo carriers ever need pilots at the same time as passenger carriers, premium pay will have to come as there will be no other incentive to go to cargo. Stability is now common to all carriers. There must be a draw for cargo as QOL is better at the passenger side at this point.