System Bid has been posted
05-06-2023, 04:54 AM
#231
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,813
So which method is correct? In the second quote above (which is actually your earlier post) you described exactly how sec 24 works now. Where you're upset is that pilots not being bumped can only fill vacancies as their seniority allows. This bid does not have many vacancies.
Bump and Flush is NOT how other legacy airlines run things so better get comfortable with it. And yes, I have been bumped and flushed here couple of times. The industry standard language is better for the crew force in my option. Disagreeing with your option means just that. No need to insult me because your feelings are hurt.
Bump and Flush is NOT how other legacy airlines run things so better get comfortable with it. And yes, I have been bumped and flushed here couple of times. The industry standard language is better for the crew force in my option. Disagreeing with your option means just that. No need to insult me because your feelings are hurt.
Trying to reason with meeighteen is impossible. You can't reason with the unreasonable. Our old language would have allowed the company to close those bases without a bump and flush. It would have also allowed for the company to move pilots from an overmanned seat to other seats without a bump and flush. There was nothing in the old contract that said that the company MUST bump and flush. Meeighteen is just mad at the decisions he made and is trying to place blame on everyone and everything other than himself. I'm sure his life resembles a country song. Wife left him, forced to take a crappy job, etc....
Funny how he came here because he was going to get furloughed, and now he is saying the the legacies couldn't furlough because it would cost too much. With his track record, why would you listen to anything he has to say. He doesn't even understand how the current system works. Just feel sorry for him.
05-06-2023, 05:14 AM
#233
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2019
Posts: 444
Yea don't get me wrong, i don't love the language but i choose to try and understand it. My biggest fear with this bid? So many people listen to guys like 318 and they aren't bidding what they can. Also I fear the company programmers won't get it correct, because of this i still think it will be cancelled or there will be a grievance once the dust settles. Not because of guys like 318 not understanding it but the company didn't program it correctly and theres 5-10 unique scenarios that fell outside the algorithm. Of course there will be 500 who say it is wrong.
05-06-2023, 08:43 AM
#234
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2005
Posts: 1,275
I'm just going to say, for the sake of this argument, that you're a A300 FO. On the last bid, people junior to you said "I'm sick of being an A300 FO, it sucks, and I'll take 757 CA at 100% to leave my seat." They bid 757 CA and were awarded it and were waiting to go for training. At the same time, you decided that you're not going to move, and are happy in your seat and didn't want to move to some other seat that you could hold. So now the people who were proactive and bid out on the last bid, had their #1 choice negated, so they get to move to a less optimal choice than the one they made on the last bid. You chose to remain in your seat on the last bid, and now there aren't vacancies for you to move to. I get being butt-hurt about it, but it's still honoring seniority.
I was at a carrier before and after 9/11 they got rid of their 727s. They didn't run a whole "bump and flush" when they did that. They just allowed the people coming off that plane to move somewhere else that their seniority allowed. Nobody was bumped from an A321 FO seat because a 727 FO moved there. Meanwhile there were 737 FOs who wanted a A321 spot that saw junior 727 FOs get it. I don't see how you don't think this is industry standard for a base closure.
05-06-2023, 07:07 PM
#235
Contract 2021
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: 777 - Both
Posts: 438
You are an absolute joke. Section 25 was your only worry in March. Your own words below.
Substitution is the New Norm
Substitution is the New Norm
The anxiety must be spectacular.
05-07-2023, 06:45 AM
#236
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2023
Posts: 111
You are an absolute joke. Section 25 was your only worry in March. Your own words below.
Substitution is the New Norm
Substitution is the New Norm
05-11-2023, 11:59 AM
#238
Chemtrail Dispenser..
Joined APC: Apr 2015
Posts: 298
No, here's the problem, if a pilot is bumped, under the new section 24 rules, that pilot can only go to seats with vacancies... The company gets to manipulate the vacancies/staffing level however they want.
So what if, theoretically, the only seats with vacancies were 757 FO? An MD11 CA could be forced to 757 FO under the current language, while pilots junior to that pilot would get to keep their 777 and 767 CA slots.
.
So what if, theoretically, the only seats with vacancies were 757 FO? An MD11 CA could be forced to 757 FO under the current language, while pilots junior to that pilot would get to keep their 777 and 767 CA slots.
.
05-11-2023, 03:14 PM
#239
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2018
Position: 757 CA
Posts: 613
I disagree. Legacies absolutely do have bump and flush. Which is why they came to agreements with their pilots for early outs and lower pay to avoid furloughs during covid because the cascading trading events from all the bumping and flushing would have been absolutely insane. FedEx doesn't need to worry about that though because we gave up our bump and flush language to the company for free already.
05-13-2023, 07:28 PM
#240
Nice lookin' tree, there!
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: Tool-Box, old man
Posts: 2,204
First off I am not a fan of the “pancake plan”. I would much rather see an improvement to our current plan. I like the diversion tactic though with the accusation that apposing positions must be reps. I bet you also think the CIA has your house bugged and is out to get you.
Keep the faith.
fbh
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