Sluggo_63

This has nothing to do with the changes in 2015. The exact same thing would have happened under the previous contracts.

Temocil27

Anyone going to acknowledge the fact that the percentages are wrong in several categories? ANC77F has 79 FOs at 100%. MEM 67F has 127 FOs at 100%.

Globemaster2827

How is seniority violated in this? There has to be a vacancy for you to go somewhere. If you wanted a higher paying seat or a CA spot, you had the opportunity last bid and probably decided not to take it. You can't just take someone else's seat when there are no vacancies. There's a reason why people say to get into the seat you want as soon as possible and this is that reason.

MelT

Anybody notice the 102 vacancies in the MEM757FO seat? Now granted, there are only 182 FOs now so the 310 awarded is 128 more than current, but still has a lot of room before they have to force somebody out to the street. It puts the 100 most junior pilots on the property into the most junior seat, perhaps as would be expected.

I also see 5mil seniority number pilots in every CA seat on the property.

Again, there are displacements and closings, those suck. But the sky isn't falling on THIS bid. There is room for 102 plus approx 300 retirements in the span of this bid for contraction. For now everybody is safe on board.

Of course, its only a practice bid so we all know things will change somewhat in the final.

The next bid when they further reduce MD11 and perhaps A300 seats will be the really interesting one.

Now get out there and VOTE!

Globemaster2827

We don't furlough at FedEx, so nobody was ever getting forced out onto the street. I agree 100% that everybody panicked way too much. This is bad but not that bad and it starts to align us to the Boeing only fleet that we've been rumored to be headed towards for years now.

MelT

This is true in an expansion type bid. ALL of our bids now (due to C2015) can be a displacement bid. 23-01 is the prime example. You CAN and some WILL be displaced from the seats they had been awarded in previous bids. That is the point of a displacement bid.

If you think you will be able to just defer your displacement "award" or "assignment" you may be very surprised. The company has a history of training people out of contractual order and there is nothing we can do about it. Oh, they will pay you for the difference (if there is any), but they can and will decide who and how many from each and every seat train into and out of each and every seat at their whim. And there isn't anything we can do to stop them.

When I was displaced (albeit under last contract) I was sent to my new seat out of order and they simply paid me the former rate until the time I should have been activated in the new seat. I wasn't alone. No rhyme or reason, no justification or explanation as to why, they just did it. In some regards we are powerless. Training is one of them, no matter how we try to protect ourselves with contract language.

Globemaster2827

You can be displaced by someone who's displaced. A 777 FO who's senior to a 757 CA can't just take their seat with no vacancy because all of the sudden they've decided they want to be a CA. If they were displaced they can. People are being displaced in most seats so there are very few vacancies.

My guess is that most of the people complaining about the seniority aspect of this weren't displaced and therefore can't move seats. If that's not the case then they need to talk to the union, but there's been a ton of confusion on this. You can't just bump people if you can hold your current seat.

As for the training out of order... Yeah... That's been happening on this contract. I bet we have 757 FOs who've lost more than $100k on the company refusing to train them. I hope there's a fix for that in the new contract which reflects the actual pay loss that those guys were taking.

Freight

I guess those of us in fleets that aren’t getting parked are just stuck in our seats indefinitely regardless of seniority.

DLax85

The structure of this displacement bid is different than the old "Minus 1, Bump and Flush" bids of yesteryear. Was anyone previously blocked from bidding another seat unless they were on a seat lock from a previous lateral bid?

Can ALL MEM 757 Capts or FOs bid to a 767 vacancy in this bid?

Can ALL MEM 757 FO bid to MEM 757 Capt?

Practice bid already showing that more junior pilots from displaced aircraft/domiciles are being awarded 767 & 757 slots, over more senior pilots. I'm not talking about bumping anyone from their current seat. I'm talking about filling new vacancies in growing fleets or undermanned seats, out of seniority order.

Previously, the tooth paste was pushed backwards via seniority. Now, it's not so clean cut. The holes are being filled differently. The company wants to fill seats at minimum training cost, regardless of seniority. We've given them more power and flexibility to do so. These are the hidden efficiencies they smartly bargain for, which we often ignore at our own peril.

In Unity (for everyone),
DLax

Sluggo_63

The structure is different, but the results are the same. If they put a -25 in the 77C seat (old contract), and you were a 77F and wanted to be a Captain, you wouldn't be able to move because the seat was in excess, unless you were bumped out, or bid to relieve the excess. Same thing here. People are seeing junior people gets seats they bid, but those junior people are coming from a closing base or being bumped out of their seat. The same thing would have happened with the last contract. You can't go to a seat that's in excess (old verbiage) just because you wanted to.