Don’t have Buyer’s Remorse
02-19-2023, 10:27 AM
#1
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jan 2023
Posts: 115
Don’t have Buyer’s Remorse
When comparing how a person is going to spend the next 20-40 years of their career are the jobs equal?
Because of the nature of the unionized airline business, pilots take job comparisons far too personally. Purple pilots in particular seem to take anyone questioning their job, and it is just a job, more personally than most other commercial pilots. Perhaps it’s an ego thing, we aren’t the pilots parading through the terminal with throngs of onlooking admirers, so we must convince ourselves that we are still relevant and equal. Let’s ignore the reality that so many’s insecurities are rooted in false realities.
Let us look at the reality shall we…
Purple pilots have hung their hats on the idea that we don’t bid monthly schedules with PBS. The fear of PBS is a boogeyman in the closet. The fear is based on an overactive imagination. Nearly a quarter of purple pilots get their schedules via PBS every month, in the last week of the month. Purple pilots enjoy industry leading vacation, barely. There are many ways to use vacation, and the PBS scare tactic is a text book straw man fallacy. Give up meaningful gains by protecting status quo through fear of PBS.
Purple pilots don’t deal with the traveling public and flight attendants… Seriously? The most senior trips at Purple involve spending a lot of time in airports and dealing with the traveling public. If you can’t deal with the public, look in the mirror.
Purple pilots have a pension…. Great benefit. Unfortunately to increase this benefit, not protect it, the union that represents purple pilots is prepared to forgo any meaningful quality of life gains, and in fact concede QOL language so that the very pilots who have enjoyed QOL can pull the ladder up behind them.
Let’s look at some very basic comparisons:
Duty day. Passenger airline pilots are often, not always, relieved of the tough call on fatigue because they are protected by schedules based on science and regulated by Part 117 rules. Purple runs out of sleep rooms every week night while the pilots fly back side of the clock. Flying for purple means you’ll work nights, the worst nights aren’t protected from a regulatory standpoint.
Reserve: purple, one hour callout. Memphis area crashpad. The rest of the industry…
System bidding: Purple pilots are subjected to the most restrictive position advancement in the industry, period. Purple pilots are subjected to the most different QOL between junior and senior and the most restrictive language to progress with your seniority in the industry. Years of middle of the night flying while junior pilots enjoy day time and international is the reality. Period.
Commutability: Don’t get sucked in. “All purple trips are commutable.” Purple pilots commute to work the day before and commute home on their day off more than any pilots in the industry. That day off commute home, go sit in the jumpseat lounge and see how healthy that looks.
Pay: for all of the shortfalls mentioned above, purple pilots receive average or below average pay rates.
Purple isn’t hiring so this thread is somewhat moot. I suggest the following, why would you come to purple? Don’t get sucked in by pilots who have an ego telling you to come here. Don’t get sucked in by pilots telling you that passenger airlines aren’t stable. The consolidation in the last 10 years has made the big 3+ too big to fail. The passenger airlines are retiring more pilots and they offer far better QOL.
If you do come here, and realize it’s not for you and seek to improve your situation tread very carefully. The company has just terminated a pilot after they received a PRIA request for the individual.
I’m a purple pilot. The company I work for has lost its way. I can’t let my ego steer future pilots away from a long a healthy career because my feelings are hurt in some silly comparison.
If I had a child or a very close friend that was competitive in the major 121 job market, I would now suggest purple as a last resort. What does that say for current purple pilots? We deserve better. We deserve better treatment from our Union. We deserve better treatment from our employer. We must be honest about where we are in the industry. The time is now to make it right. The hardest work deserves the best. Period.
Because of the nature of the unionized airline business, pilots take job comparisons far too personally. Purple pilots in particular seem to take anyone questioning their job, and it is just a job, more personally than most other commercial pilots. Perhaps it’s an ego thing, we aren’t the pilots parading through the terminal with throngs of onlooking admirers, so we must convince ourselves that we are still relevant and equal. Let’s ignore the reality that so many’s insecurities are rooted in false realities.
Let us look at the reality shall we…
Purple pilots have hung their hats on the idea that we don’t bid monthly schedules with PBS. The fear of PBS is a boogeyman in the closet. The fear is based on an overactive imagination. Nearly a quarter of purple pilots get their schedules via PBS every month, in the last week of the month. Purple pilots enjoy industry leading vacation, barely. There are many ways to use vacation, and the PBS scare tactic is a text book straw man fallacy. Give up meaningful gains by protecting status quo through fear of PBS.
Purple pilots don’t deal with the traveling public and flight attendants… Seriously? The most senior trips at Purple involve spending a lot of time in airports and dealing with the traveling public. If you can’t deal with the public, look in the mirror.
Purple pilots have a pension…. Great benefit. Unfortunately to increase this benefit, not protect it, the union that represents purple pilots is prepared to forgo any meaningful quality of life gains, and in fact concede QOL language so that the very pilots who have enjoyed QOL can pull the ladder up behind them.
Let’s look at some very basic comparisons:
Duty day. Passenger airline pilots are often, not always, relieved of the tough call on fatigue because they are protected by schedules based on science and regulated by Part 117 rules. Purple runs out of sleep rooms every week night while the pilots fly back side of the clock. Flying for purple means you’ll work nights, the worst nights aren’t protected from a regulatory standpoint.
Reserve: purple, one hour callout. Memphis area crashpad. The rest of the industry…
System bidding: Purple pilots are subjected to the most restrictive position advancement in the industry, period. Purple pilots are subjected to the most different QOL between junior and senior and the most restrictive language to progress with your seniority in the industry. Years of middle of the night flying while junior pilots enjoy day time and international is the reality. Period.
Commutability: Don’t get sucked in. “All purple trips are commutable.” Purple pilots commute to work the day before and commute home on their day off more than any pilots in the industry. That day off commute home, go sit in the jumpseat lounge and see how healthy that looks.
Pay: for all of the shortfalls mentioned above, purple pilots receive average or below average pay rates.
Purple isn’t hiring so this thread is somewhat moot. I suggest the following, why would you come to purple? Don’t get sucked in by pilots who have an ego telling you to come here. Don’t get sucked in by pilots telling you that passenger airlines aren’t stable. The consolidation in the last 10 years has made the big 3+ too big to fail. The passenger airlines are retiring more pilots and they offer far better QOL.
If you do come here, and realize it’s not for you and seek to improve your situation tread very carefully. The company has just terminated a pilot after they received a PRIA request for the individual.
I’m a purple pilot. The company I work for has lost its way. I can’t let my ego steer future pilots away from a long a healthy career because my feelings are hurt in some silly comparison.
If I had a child or a very close friend that was competitive in the major 121 job market, I would now suggest purple as a last resort. What does that say for current purple pilots? We deserve better. We deserve better treatment from our Union. We deserve better treatment from our employer. We must be honest about where we are in the industry. The time is now to make it right. The hardest work deserves the best. Period.
02-20-2023, 03:57 PM
#3
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2022
Posts: 152
Hmmm. Canuck, you and I tracked identical timelines from regional, to ACMI, to FedEx. The difference is, while I was doing hub turns on reserve in Memphis, you were hanging out in Milan on the 777. Congrats on timing the hiring wave correctly. Sincerely, a crew member senior to you.
02-21-2023, 05:29 PM
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,624
Yes, it needs to be posted everywhere. Every future pilot candidate should be told to avoid this place at all cost. Heck, even if you use FedEx as a stepping stone to your final airline, they'll fire you once they find out. Imagine having to disclose and explain that to future employers. My company has embarrassed me.
02-21-2023, 05:51 PM
#5
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2020
Posts: 21
[QUOTE=jackryan;3594612]When comparing how a person is going to spend the next 20-40 years of their career are the jobs equal?
I’m coming up on 5 years with purple this year and although my time thus far has been good overall I still agree with everything said here. If this contract doesn’t bring some major changes/improvements I will begin applying to United/delta.
I’m coming up on 5 years with purple this year and although my time thus far has been good overall I still agree with everything said here. If this contract doesn’t bring some major changes/improvements I will begin applying to United/delta.
02-22-2023, 05:01 AM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 296
Airline pilots are very hyperbolic.(myself included) I agree that the firing was totally out of line. But the narrative of working for FedEx has flipped almost 180 from a few years ago. And it’ll flip again. The sky is falling or it’s the best place to be. Very black and white. Every airline has its warts. Stay. Leave. Work for corporate America. Do what ya gotta do.
02-22-2023, 05:23 AM
#7
Not a real airline pilot
Joined APC: Jul 2016
Position: Cargo > Pax
Posts: 365
[QUOTE=Greenhorn;3595919]
That 5y cutline is a tough call. I'd guess that pilot is somewhere around 60-65% on the master seniority list? I don't know the right decision for every family for sure, sometimes I struggle to choose between two great options for my own family. For those with less than 3y on property though, I could see a mass exodus toward Delta's TA as voting completes at EOM. Particularly after UAL & AAL pattern off DAL's numbers.
As I don't give my coworkers a vote in my monthly bidding or future family plans, I can't fault a single pilot who jumps ship toward the hiring surge occurring at other carriers.
Funny enough, that potential exodus would solve FedEx's current self-created problem of overhiring right into a recession. Scary part for the pilot jumping ship--now more junior at another carrier, also subjected to the same global recession. That's nightmare fuel for me. Could be just another "meet the new boss, same as the old boss" scenario, where carrier XYZ overhires right into same recessionary downturn. I've still got a crack in my crystal ball, so I have no idea how this will all turn out.
I do think in a seniority based system, it's insane to chase the best/latest contract. That's an impossible objective, trying to hit a moving target. Acknowledgement must be given to the nature of pattern bargaining. FedEx is certainly not the prettiest girl at the dance currently, with a 7y old contract (and Evil Corp firing a pilot for a simple PRIA request). Once the FedEx pattern bargained TA is finally available, we may hear the thunderous roar of junior FedEx pilots voting with their feet. I remain cautiously optimistic that the TA will be worth the wait.
Best of luck to all us, driving blind on these issues.
When comparing how a person is going to spend the next 20-40 years of their career are the jobs equal?
I’m coming up on 5 years with purple this year and although my time thus far has been good overall I still agree with everything said here. If this contract doesn’t bring some major changes/improvements I will begin applying to United/delta.
I’m coming up on 5 years with purple this year and although my time thus far has been good overall I still agree with everything said here. If this contract doesn’t bring some major changes/improvements I will begin applying to United/delta.
As I don't give my coworkers a vote in my monthly bidding or future family plans, I can't fault a single pilot who jumps ship toward the hiring surge occurring at other carriers.
Funny enough, that potential exodus would solve FedEx's current self-created problem of overhiring right into a recession. Scary part for the pilot jumping ship--now more junior at another carrier, also subjected to the same global recession. That's nightmare fuel for me. Could be just another "meet the new boss, same as the old boss" scenario, where carrier XYZ overhires right into same recessionary downturn. I've still got a crack in my crystal ball, so I have no idea how this will all turn out.
I do think in a seniority based system, it's insane to chase the best/latest contract. That's an impossible objective, trying to hit a moving target. Acknowledgement must be given to the nature of pattern bargaining. FedEx is certainly not the prettiest girl at the dance currently, with a 7y old contract (and Evil Corp firing a pilot for a simple PRIA request). Once the FedEx pattern bargained TA is finally available, we may hear the thunderous roar of junior FedEx pilots voting with their feet. I remain cautiously optimistic that the TA will be worth the wait.
Best of luck to all us, driving blind on these issues.
02-22-2023, 05:30 AM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 296
[QUOTE=DirtyPurple;3596079]
That 5y cutline is a tough call. I'd guess that pilot is somewhere around 60-65% on the master seniority list? I don't know the right decision for every family for sure, sometimes I struggle to choose between two great options for my own family. For those with less than 3y on property though, I could see a mass exodus toward Delta's TA as voting completes at EOM. Particularly after UAL & AAL pattern off DAL's numbers.
As I don't give my coworkers a vote in my monthly bidding or future family plans, I can't fault a single pilot who jumps ship toward the hiring surge occurring at other carriers.
Funny enough, that potential exodus would solve FedEx's current self-created problem of overhiring right into a recession. Scary part for the pilot jumping ship--now more junior at another carrier, also subjected to the same global recession. That's nightmare fuel for me. Could be just another "meet the new boss, same as the old boss" scenario, where carrier XYZ overhires right into same recessionary downturn. I've still got a crack in my crystal ball, so I have no idea how this will all turn out.
I do think in a seniority based system, it's insane to chase the best/latest contract. That's an impossible objective, trying to hit a moving target. Acknowledgement must be given to the nature of pattern bargaining. FedEx is certainly not the prettiest girl at the dance currently, with a 7y old contract (and Evil Corp firing a pilot for a simple PRIA request). Once the FedEx pattern bargained TA is finally available, we may hear the thunderous roar of junior FedEx pilots voting with their feet. I remain cautiously optimistic that the TA will be worth the wait.
Best of luck to all us, driving blind on these issues.
Agreed. Kinda what I was getting at. But your post is more comprehensive. 🍻
That 5y cutline is a tough call. I'd guess that pilot is somewhere around 60-65% on the master seniority list? I don't know the right decision for every family for sure, sometimes I struggle to choose between two great options for my own family. For those with less than 3y on property though, I could see a mass exodus toward Delta's TA as voting completes at EOM. Particularly after UAL & AAL pattern off DAL's numbers.
As I don't give my coworkers a vote in my monthly bidding or future family plans, I can't fault a single pilot who jumps ship toward the hiring surge occurring at other carriers.
Funny enough, that potential exodus would solve FedEx's current self-created problem of overhiring right into a recession. Scary part for the pilot jumping ship--now more junior at another carrier, also subjected to the same global recession. That's nightmare fuel for me. Could be just another "meet the new boss, same as the old boss" scenario, where carrier XYZ overhires right into same recessionary downturn. I've still got a crack in my crystal ball, so I have no idea how this will all turn out.
I do think in a seniority based system, it's insane to chase the best/latest contract. That's an impossible objective, trying to hit a moving target. Acknowledgement must be given to the nature of pattern bargaining. FedEx is certainly not the prettiest girl at the dance currently, with a 7y old contract (and Evil Corp firing a pilot for a simple PRIA request). Once the FedEx pattern bargained TA is finally available, we may hear the thunderous roar of junior FedEx pilots voting with their feet. I remain cautiously optimistic that the TA will be worth the wait.
Best of luck to all us, driving blind on these issues.
02-22-2023, 06:31 AM
#9
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2012
Posts: 705
[QUOTE=DirtyPurple;3596079]
That 5y cutline is a tough call. I'd guess that pilot is somewhere around 60-65% on the master seniority list? I don't know the right decision for every family for sure, sometimes I struggle to choose between two great options for my own family. For those with less than 3y on property though, I could see a mass exodus toward Delta's TA as voting completes at EOM. Particularly after UAL & AAL pattern off DAL's numbers.
As I don't give my coworkers a vote in my monthly bidding or future family plans, I can't fault a single pilot who jumps ship toward the hiring surge occurring at other carriers.
Funny enough, that potential exodus would solve FedEx's current self-created problem of overhiring right into a recession. Scary part for the pilot jumping ship--now more junior at another carrier, also subjected to the same global recession. That's nightmare fuel for me. Could be just another "meet the new boss, same as the old boss" scenario, where carrier XYZ overhires right into same recessionary downturn. I've still got a crack in my crystal ball, so I have no idea how this will all turn out.
I do think in a seniority based system, it's insane to chase the best/latest contract. That's an impossible objective, trying to hit a moving target. Acknowledgement must be given to the nature of pattern bargaining. FedEx is certainly not the prettiest girl at the dance currently, with a 7y old contract (and Evil Corp firing a pilot for a simple PRIA request). Once the FedEx pattern bargained TA is finally available, we may hear the thunderous roar of junior FedEx pilots voting with their feet. I remain cautiously optimistic that the TA will be worth the wait.
Best of luck to all us, driving blind on these issues.
This is incorrect. Staffing is good per the instructor meeting yesterday. Not overstaffed or under. However, there are no plans to hire anytime soon.
That 5y cutline is a tough call. I'd guess that pilot is somewhere around 60-65% on the master seniority list? I don't know the right decision for every family for sure, sometimes I struggle to choose between two great options for my own family. For those with less than 3y on property though, I could see a mass exodus toward Delta's TA as voting completes at EOM. Particularly after UAL & AAL pattern off DAL's numbers.
As I don't give my coworkers a vote in my monthly bidding or future family plans, I can't fault a single pilot who jumps ship toward the hiring surge occurring at other carriers.
Funny enough, that potential exodus would solve FedEx's current self-created problem of overhiring right into a recession. Scary part for the pilot jumping ship--now more junior at another carrier, also subjected to the same global recession. That's nightmare fuel for me. Could be just another "meet the new boss, same as the old boss" scenario, where carrier XYZ overhires right into same recessionary downturn. I've still got a crack in my crystal ball, so I have no idea how this will all turn out.
I do think in a seniority based system, it's insane to chase the best/latest contract. That's an impossible objective, trying to hit a moving target. Acknowledgement must be given to the nature of pattern bargaining. FedEx is certainly not the prettiest girl at the dance currently, with a 7y old contract (and Evil Corp firing a pilot for a simple PRIA request). Once the FedEx pattern bargained TA is finally available, we may hear the thunderous roar of junior FedEx pilots voting with their feet. I remain cautiously optimistic that the TA will be worth the wait.
Best of luck to all us, driving blind on these issues.
02-22-2023, 07:44 AM
#10
Not a real airline pilot
Joined APC: Jul 2016
Position: Cargo > Pax
Posts: 365
[QUOTE=opt0712;3596134]
Thanks for that. I agree with you; it was stated in the briefing that staffing is good and the upcoming bid will be more about realignment.
I should have been clear that what follows is my opinion: We are overstaffed, but I can't quite say by how much. That calculation is above my ability as a casual observer.
But I also saw the slide in the instructor meeting with fleet numbers into FY25 (starts on 1Jun24) where the MD & Bus won't retire any tails. This is obviously fiction; not to intentionally mislead, but because the company hasn't decided yet. From what I gather, when the company does finally decide MD retirement numbers, it will produce a realignment bid.
Training Managing Director from yesterday "If you're not in the top 60% on the MD, you won't be on it in 3 years". That obviously doesn't sync with the fleet numbers slide, because firm decisions haven't been made yet.
That's why my opinion is overstaffed. If you're seeing something else, shoot. My logic is often flawed, at least that's what my wife tells me.
I should have been clear that what follows is my opinion: We are overstaffed, but I can't quite say by how much. That calculation is above my ability as a casual observer.
But I also saw the slide in the instructor meeting with fleet numbers into FY25 (starts on 1Jun24) where the MD & Bus won't retire any tails. This is obviously fiction; not to intentionally mislead, but because the company hasn't decided yet. From what I gather, when the company does finally decide MD retirement numbers, it will produce a realignment bid.
Training Managing Director from yesterday "If you're not in the top 60% on the MD, you won't be on it in 3 years". That obviously doesn't sync with the fleet numbers slide, because firm decisions haven't been made yet.
That's why my opinion is overstaffed. If you're seeing something else, shoot. My logic is often flawed, at least that's what my wife tells me.
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