WearyEyed

Whoever is working the next few days. Godspeed.

Whoopsmybad

Our new (potential) global scope has a jobs remedy. Violate and they have to add jobs on the WB fleets ABOVE the staffing formula, allowing progression throughout the seniority list. We tried the monetary route, arbitrators rarely helped us, Pennies on the $$.

We also have the least RJs, and as stated, do a lot of 717 and 220 flying by our seniority list. More WB deliveries coming that’ll be needed for the JV growth requirements.

Is Deltas scope perfect, absolutely not. But we have gotten/are working to get back what we lost.

Edit: should have kept reading was beat to the punch.

pinseeker

Sure, we can banter some more. Your exact quote was

So why would you look it up if you were sure you were right. You said you should have, especially since you were sure you were correct. (Yes, I paraphrased there). So if the condition for looking things up is being especially sure you are right, does that mean if you think you are wrong, you won't look it up?

Here's another gem.

Wait, I thought that you didn't have to give up something to get something?

And then there is this

What do you mean by that. Are you saying that management is saying that the standard reserve call out is 1 hour? Are you sure you are not confusing it with short call?

Finally, I think it was you who asked if being able to sell all of your vacation back was a concession. If it was you, what are your thoughts, is it a concession or not?

Noworkallplay

If the limit is so high, you never have to worry about a violation. That is the problem with the passenger airline scope. There is no penalty up to a very high threshold. That is why you have less than 20% of pilots on WB pay and almost 50% of domestic loads on regionals. Limits mean nothing if there is no penalty until virtually half the business is gone.

I think you need to mention you have the least amount of widebody jobs of any major passenger airline.

FXLAX

Well, it looks like you’ve been taking notes on comments I’ve made throughout.

I’ll take them one at a time. As for looking it up, I said I was being lazy and that I was wrong. I think you need to learn to just take the win. I try not to be too proud to admit when im wrong. I’m trying to do it again to you. I also try to be gracious with others, especially when they make honest mistakes.

Giving something up? I don’t feel that trading open grievances that are up to interpretation of an arbitrator is the same as giving something up already in contract language. Maybe that is semantics, maybe not but it’s my position. Typically open grievances are settled when negotiating the sections in question. It’s the natural process that’s just taken care of during section 6. Other grievances will be settled or won outside of section 6 and they sometimes change language to reflect that outcome. I don’t consider that giving something up then so why would I feel differently if it happens during section 6?

Next, mesa has a 2 hour call out with no carve outs. We have as low as 1.5 hours that can be reduced to 1 hour during certain circumstances. Did I get any of that wrong? I can see how my comment wasn’t clear. I just meant that our call out can be as low as one hour.

Lastly, on vacation sellback. I asked if he would consider a change of being able to sell 10% more of your vacation (50% total) a concession. I asked because he said he will vote no for any concession. I wanted to clarify what HE thought was a concession and used vacation sellback as an example of an item I feel some pilots may think is a concession and others not. In other words, I was trying to get at his absoluteness. As for me, I do feel it’s a concession. In my example, not a big one.

Anything else you want to correct or want clarification?

UnusualAttitude

Unless Purple WB rates equal or exceed DL A350/A330/B765 rates then the advantage to the Purple pilot ceases to exist. Who cares if it is a WB if it pays the same as a legacy NB.

FXLAX

They are trending positive. We are trending negative. The reason why is because they’ve improved their scope continuously for the last few bargaining cycles. Us on the other hand have not improved our scope significantly lately. And our scope has absolutely no limits. We can easily be worse off than Delta when they were at their worst. Nothing stops management from putting more freight on Delta bellies, or wet leasing as much as they want, or putting our freight on ASL. How is that better than Delta?

Pilots

Agreed. The term widebody has just become associated with higher pay. If the highest pay was a DC-9, it would be the most senior. Has nothing to do with widebody. All of us care about days off and pay. For argument sake, living in base at whatever airline, I'd rather fly a 737 at legacy over a WB at Fedex, UPS, etc. if it paid more and gave me the same off days.

Whoopsmybad

It’s actually just over 20% on WB pay, projected to be 25% by the time our deliveries play out according to our global scope podcast (go check it out, maybe you’ll learn something about what you are trying to say you know). Now you can try using the argument that not all out WBs pay the same, but that’s getting fixed (except for the 767-300ER stuck banded to the 757). And it’s not even close to 50% of our domestic feed on RJs. You can look at the number of planes we have and what we own that are flying DCI and see that’s flat out false. Nice try though.

FDX1

Are you Delta guys seriously going to come to the FDX page and brag about your current TA and compare those rates to our current (7 year old rates) when you know we are getting close to finalizing a TA?

Look, I’m seriously happy for your TA and some outstanding pay rates. Helps everyone else and raises the bar. Kudos but we should let these bargaining cycles play out before we all have a di$& measuring contest.
There are substantial differences in our CBA’s that make most of the work rules incomparable (PBS vs Line bidding, etc) not to mention we are in 2 different industries all together!

Happy for you guys - hope your deal gets ratified.