Buyer's remorse??
01-23-2023, 08:06 AM
#261
Contract 2021
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: 777 - Both
Posts: 442
To the OP I very much understand your sentiments. I was junior at my legacy during the covid stupidity and bought into all of the hype and left my legacy to come to purple. My perspective is coming from being junior on a domestic only fleet but coming to Fed Ex is by far the worst career decision I've ever made. I've been at Fed Ex for a year and a half and it is by far the worst flying job I've ever had. What amazes me is that so many folks think that FedEx is the best job in the industry. I don't know if they came straight from a regional or the military, but having come from a legacy I'd say Fed Ex is the one of the worst jobs in the industry. This post is mainly directed to others who are either thinking of coming to Fed Ex or want to leave their legacy or Southwest job to come here, my recommendation is don't. The only reason to come to Purple is if you live in Memphis and then I'd highly question your judgement for choosing to live in Memphis. If you haven't been to Memphis, it's a special kind of hell.
The good things we have here are
1) Perceived stability, although that is debatable. Fed Ex is doing the worst out of all of the airlines right now and we are the only ones who are not hiring. BLGs in the 75, MD and bus went below 68 CH for Feb. I wouldn't be surprised if we see 4a2b this summer. Fed Ex has never furloughed, but past performance is no indication of future performance. With retirements at AA and UAL, I'd argue you're safer from furlough at either of those carriers.
2) If you don't like pax you don't have to deal with them. Quite honestly I never had an issue with pax. The job is the same up front and when I did have a pax issue it was the FAs or gate agents who dealt with it. I'd prefer flying pax to commuting into Memphis at midnight, trying to get a nap in the crappy sleep room and showing at 2:30 am.
3) More opportunities to fly widebodies and perhaps the ability to be a WB captain much earlier in your career. However, 76 captain at Delta just went very junior, so I'm not sure that's even a positive for Fed Ex anymore
4) The ability to deviate deadheads, but if the company keeps using low baseline fares, pilots will either dip into their bank or pay out of pocket if the have no bank.
The Negatives
1) Memphis. Whether you live here or not you will be here quite a bit. Memphis is the most disgusting and violent town I have ever been to and that includes the many third world and war torn countries I've been to. Anyone who lives in Memphis should be absolutely ashamed for letting their town become so violent and disgusting. In fact, Jetflyers today had a bunch of pilots complaining about their cars being broken into in the employee parking lot!! The company does not care about the safety of their pilots. In fact, someone pointed out there are no cameras in the employee parking lot and security is doing nothing about it. I hear stories of how every year Fed Ex pilots are robbed or car jacked in Memphis. I even heard a story where a Fed Ex pilot was killed in a road rage incident in Memphis. Yes, it really is that bad.
2) We have high pay rates but a 68 Credit Hour BLG. Yes, as a widebody FO you will make more per hour, but a narrowbody FO at a legacy will make as much or more than you because they get more credit hours. Typical lines at legacy airlines are 80 CH and min guarantee is 73-76 CH depending on the airlines.
3) Because of our pay structure you will work more days for less credit. On the domestic side I typically work 15 days to credit in the low 70's. My friends at the legacy airlines work 13-14 days for 85 CH. Yes, we block less hours at Fed Ex, but any day I'm gone from home is considered work whether I'm flying or not!
4) I believe Fed Ex has a toxic culture. I feel more like a number here than I ever did at my legacy. I've flown with more A-Hole Captains here than I ever did at my legacy. I once got debriefed because I asked the Captain if he wanted water and he debriefed me that I should have never asked that question and it should always be assumed.
5) At my legacy probation was just a word. However, at Fed Ex they like to hold it over our heads and remind us that our job is always on the line as probies.
6) Our system bid is by far the worst in the industry. If you don't like what you got during indoc, too bad because the next system bid may not be for 1 year, 2 year, 3 years, who knows. It all depends on when management feels like they should have another bid. If you're in a widebody seat lock when the next bid comes out, too bad because you'll have to wait another few years until the next bid. Even once you bid out of your equipment it may take years until you're actually given your award, meanwhile new hires are being trained in front of you.
7) Our retirement plan. I'd say this is neutral. We have an A Plan and a B Plan. Given my age, I'd prefer 16% DC and cash over cap versus our current plan but this all comes down to where you are in life and what you have in your nest egg.
8) As a new hire at Fed Ex you will be expected to get a crashpad on your own dime during training after indoc. You will not be receiving any per diem and you will be making a whopping $4000 per month until you are activated after your IOE. Fed Ex is the only airline that still does this. That alone should have told me this was not a good place to be. At my previous legacy I was given 85 CH per month, lodging and transportation provided and per diem.
9) Our work rules are absolutely atrocious and arguably some of the worst in the industry. Crew scheduling is able to change your sequence at will and call it a revision. I've had double deadheads revised into hub turns. How our contract allows them to do this blows my mind. You may get paid overages but you'll have to insite them and that will take months and it's up to the company if they want to pay you or not. Substitution is another horrible horrible rule. At any other airline you'll get paid and get to go home if your trip cancels due to company decisions. But at Fed Ex we get the pleasure of either accepting substitution and being on the hook or making it up sometime in the future at 125% and that's if I can find open time which in this current environment is not likely.
10) Our Reserve rules are the worst in the industry. We have RA, RB and R24. If you're on RA or RB you'll more than likely get assigned airport standby. If you're on R24 you'll get assigned hotel standby in Memphis on your first day.
11) Commuting here is also more difficult than I was told it would be. I lived in base at my legacy and came to Fed Ex because I was told it was easy to commute. It's not as easy as you think. There are a lot of domestic trips that start on Sunday afternoon and Monday morning. In most towns there are no jumpseats on Fed Ex iron that leave after Saturday morning. So that means if I am awarded a trip or reserve that starts on Sunday afternoon or Monday morning, I have to either commute out on Saturday morning or roll the dice and try to offline jumpseat on Sunday or Monday. Also, many popular towns are serviced by the 75 and 76 which only have 3 jumpseats and an additional one that is captain blocked, meaning you have to either email or text the captain and ask them to release it and it's solely at captain discretion. If you live in a popular town like Tampa, Dallas or San Antonio I'd do some research and see if those towns are even commutable since the jumpseat can be so competititve.
12) The company will try to rip you off. You have to claim expenses for travel and non-contract hotels via a monthly expense report. The process takes the company months to get back to you and if you had an out of pocket expense, you will be out that money for several months. Also, the company at their discretion can and will deny expenses due to administrative reasons like receipt difficult to read or turning in the report late. As I mentioned above, if you are owed overages for a trip that changed, you will have to manually request them via a process called insite. Again, turn around time is slow and the company will do whatever they can to not pay you. Any company that tries to rip off its employees and not reimburse their employees what they are entitled to should tell you all you need to know about that company.
13) Junior schedules are horrible. I was under the impression that Fed Ex pilots on the domestic side worked week on week off and International pilots worked 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off. As a junior pilot on a domestic fleet you will have a shotgun schedule meaning you could work one day on, one day off and then have a 3 day followed by 2 days off, etc etc. This type of schedule is extremely difficult for commuters. Also, it's not uncommon for them to have a daytime sequence followed by night hub turns followed by day again, which is really difficult on your circadian rhythm and arguably unsafe. The bidpacks are continually getting worse and worse every month.
14) We have poor hotel language in our contract. On the domestic side I've stayed at some real dumps which in my opinion is unacceptable for the profession we're in.
I left my legacy to come to Fed Ex on the false perception that Fed Ex was the best place to be. In my opinion nothing could be further from the truth. For some reason we have a pilot group that thinks this is the best place in the world and I don't know if they're trying to make themselves feel better and convince themselves they made the right decision over their peer pax carriers or if they're just oblivious to how bad it is here. For a pilot group that kept the world alive during covid, I'm disappointed that they don't demand more from their employer. The stuff I've seen since being here is absolutely unacceptable. If you're thinking of coming to Fed Ex, I hope I did my best to highlight the things I wish I knew before coming here.
Having come from a legacy you will not make more money at Fed Ex, you will not have a better quality of life, you WILL work more, but hey at least there's free popcorn in the AOC.
I'm currently working on my apps to go back to a legacy. I hate having to start over again and it sickens me to think how much seniority I lost by leaving my previous legacy. I don't know if I'm jaded because I'm junior on a domestic only fleet. I can't decide if I should wait until I can bid over to something that does international and maybe things will get better or quit wasting potential seniority at a legacy and jump ship while I can. I keep hearing from captains that they had to spend years sitting sideways on the 72 before they could even go to the right seat and I get it, but the airlines are currently in an unprecedented hiring wave and why anyone would bother coming here is beyond me.
The good things we have here are
1) Perceived stability, although that is debatable. Fed Ex is doing the worst out of all of the airlines right now and we are the only ones who are not hiring. BLGs in the 75, MD and bus went below 68 CH for Feb. I wouldn't be surprised if we see 4a2b this summer. Fed Ex has never furloughed, but past performance is no indication of future performance. With retirements at AA and UAL, I'd argue you're safer from furlough at either of those carriers.
2) If you don't like pax you don't have to deal with them. Quite honestly I never had an issue with pax. The job is the same up front and when I did have a pax issue it was the FAs or gate agents who dealt with it. I'd prefer flying pax to commuting into Memphis at midnight, trying to get a nap in the crappy sleep room and showing at 2:30 am.
3) More opportunities to fly widebodies and perhaps the ability to be a WB captain much earlier in your career. However, 76 captain at Delta just went very junior, so I'm not sure that's even a positive for Fed Ex anymore
4) The ability to deviate deadheads, but if the company keeps using low baseline fares, pilots will either dip into their bank or pay out of pocket if the have no bank.
The Negatives
1) Memphis. Whether you live here or not you will be here quite a bit. Memphis is the most disgusting and violent town I have ever been to and that includes the many third world and war torn countries I've been to. Anyone who lives in Memphis should be absolutely ashamed for letting their town become so violent and disgusting. In fact, Jetflyers today had a bunch of pilots complaining about their cars being broken into in the employee parking lot!! The company does not care about the safety of their pilots. In fact, someone pointed out there are no cameras in the employee parking lot and security is doing nothing about it. I hear stories of how every year Fed Ex pilots are robbed or car jacked in Memphis. I even heard a story where a Fed Ex pilot was killed in a road rage incident in Memphis. Yes, it really is that bad.
2) We have high pay rates but a 68 Credit Hour BLG. Yes, as a widebody FO you will make more per hour, but a narrowbody FO at a legacy will make as much or more than you because they get more credit hours. Typical lines at legacy airlines are 80 CH and min guarantee is 73-76 CH depending on the airlines.
3) Because of our pay structure you will work more days for less credit. On the domestic side I typically work 15 days to credit in the low 70's. My friends at the legacy airlines work 13-14 days for 85 CH. Yes, we block less hours at Fed Ex, but any day I'm gone from home is considered work whether I'm flying or not!
4) I believe Fed Ex has a toxic culture. I feel more like a number here than I ever did at my legacy. I've flown with more A-Hole Captains here than I ever did at my legacy. I once got debriefed because I asked the Captain if he wanted water and he debriefed me that I should have never asked that question and it should always be assumed.
5) At my legacy probation was just a word. However, at Fed Ex they like to hold it over our heads and remind us that our job is always on the line as probies.
6) Our system bid is by far the worst in the industry. If you don't like what you got during indoc, too bad because the next system bid may not be for 1 year, 2 year, 3 years, who knows. It all depends on when management feels like they should have another bid. If you're in a widebody seat lock when the next bid comes out, too bad because you'll have to wait another few years until the next bid. Even once you bid out of your equipment it may take years until you're actually given your award, meanwhile new hires are being trained in front of you.
7) Our retirement plan. I'd say this is neutral. We have an A Plan and a B Plan. Given my age, I'd prefer 16% DC and cash over cap versus our current plan but this all comes down to where you are in life and what you have in your nest egg.
8) As a new hire at Fed Ex you will be expected to get a crashpad on your own dime during training after indoc. You will not be receiving any per diem and you will be making a whopping $4000 per month until you are activated after your IOE. Fed Ex is the only airline that still does this. That alone should have told me this was not a good place to be. At my previous legacy I was given 85 CH per month, lodging and transportation provided and per diem.
9) Our work rules are absolutely atrocious and arguably some of the worst in the industry. Crew scheduling is able to change your sequence at will and call it a revision. I've had double deadheads revised into hub turns. How our contract allows them to do this blows my mind. You may get paid overages but you'll have to insite them and that will take months and it's up to the company if they want to pay you or not. Substitution is another horrible horrible rule. At any other airline you'll get paid and get to go home if your trip cancels due to company decisions. But at Fed Ex we get the pleasure of either accepting substitution and being on the hook or making it up sometime in the future at 125% and that's if I can find open time which in this current environment is not likely.
10) Our Reserve rules are the worst in the industry. We have RA, RB and R24. If you're on RA or RB you'll more than likely get assigned airport standby. If you're on R24 you'll get assigned hotel standby in Memphis on your first day.
11) Commuting here is also more difficult than I was told it would be. I lived in base at my legacy and came to Fed Ex because I was told it was easy to commute. It's not as easy as you think. There are a lot of domestic trips that start on Sunday afternoon and Monday morning. In most towns there are no jumpseats on Fed Ex iron that leave after Saturday morning. So that means if I am awarded a trip or reserve that starts on Sunday afternoon or Monday morning, I have to either commute out on Saturday morning or roll the dice and try to offline jumpseat on Sunday or Monday. Also, many popular towns are serviced by the 75 and 76 which only have 3 jumpseats and an additional one that is captain blocked, meaning you have to either email or text the captain and ask them to release it and it's solely at captain discretion. If you live in a popular town like Tampa, Dallas or San Antonio I'd do some research and see if those towns are even commutable since the jumpseat can be so competititve.
12) The company will try to rip you off. You have to claim expenses for travel and non-contract hotels via a monthly expense report. The process takes the company months to get back to you and if you had an out of pocket expense, you will be out that money for several months. Also, the company at their discretion can and will deny expenses due to administrative reasons like receipt difficult to read or turning in the report late. As I mentioned above, if you are owed overages for a trip that changed, you will have to manually request them via a process called insite. Again, turn around time is slow and the company will do whatever they can to not pay you. Any company that tries to rip off its employees and not reimburse their employees what they are entitled to should tell you all you need to know about that company.
13) Junior schedules are horrible. I was under the impression that Fed Ex pilots on the domestic side worked week on week off and International pilots worked 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off. As a junior pilot on a domestic fleet you will have a shotgun schedule meaning you could work one day on, one day off and then have a 3 day followed by 2 days off, etc etc. This type of schedule is extremely difficult for commuters. Also, it's not uncommon for them to have a daytime sequence followed by night hub turns followed by day again, which is really difficult on your circadian rhythm and arguably unsafe. The bidpacks are continually getting worse and worse every month.
14) We have poor hotel language in our contract. On the domestic side I've stayed at some real dumps which in my opinion is unacceptable for the profession we're in.
I left my legacy to come to Fed Ex on the false perception that Fed Ex was the best place to be. In my opinion nothing could be further from the truth. For some reason we have a pilot group that thinks this is the best place in the world and I don't know if they're trying to make themselves feel better and convince themselves they made the right decision over their peer pax carriers or if they're just oblivious to how bad it is here. For a pilot group that kept the world alive during covid, I'm disappointed that they don't demand more from their employer. The stuff I've seen since being here is absolutely unacceptable. If you're thinking of coming to Fed Ex, I hope I did my best to highlight the things I wish I knew before coming here.
Having come from a legacy you will not make more money at Fed Ex, you will not have a better quality of life, you WILL work more, but hey at least there's free popcorn in the AOC.
I'm currently working on my apps to go back to a legacy. I hate having to start over again and it sickens me to think how much seniority I lost by leaving my previous legacy. I don't know if I'm jaded because I'm junior on a domestic only fleet. I can't decide if I should wait until I can bid over to something that does international and maybe things will get better or quit wasting potential seniority at a legacy and jump ship while I can. I keep hearing from captains that they had to spend years sitting sideways on the 72 before they could even go to the right seat and I get it, but the airlines are currently in an unprecedented hiring wave and why anyone would bother coming here is beyond me.
If your “career view” is what the next year or two looks like, you may become a ping ping back and forth between airlines. The reason old Captains share their war stories of oiling on the 727 is to provide a glimpse into the massive swing in fleet availability as a new hire and updgrade timelines, I.e, it’s been far worse- enjoy the good times while you have them.
There is certainly not an equation that is “one size fits all”
but expectations of a career with any airline is best predicted by past performance, smoothed out for the extremes.
You have personal reasons to look back at your old job, but whatever drove you to leave and come to FDX must be valid.
The grass is not always greener and chasing the perfect in this industry will short circuit a career and potential earnings in an industry that values seniority above everything. If you stand long enough on old grass, new greener shoots will appear around your feet.
Best of luck.
01-23-2023, 08:48 AM
#263
Contract 2021
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: 777 - Both
Posts: 442
Is it in the Opener? If not, why would you expect to see it negotiated. Also, are you willing to bring PBS on in favor of the so-called improved work rules? PBS was defeate
d and should remain so.
01-23-2023, 08:56 AM
#264
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: B767
Posts: 814
I was a no from the opener because the opener didn’t meet my expectations. I remain a no, though admittedly more adamantly since December 9th. The PBS line is garbage, FYI about 25% of our pilots already use PBS for their schedules due to the atrocity that is Contract 2015 and the company seems satisfied with that considering it wasn’t asked for this contract.
01-23-2023, 09:14 AM
#265
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Posts: 641
and for those who say that i’m whining, for those who are just happy to be here, i question your self worth, what your time on earth means to you. you want to talk about the time value of money, but what about the value of your time?
i’ve noticed that the biggest rah rah advocates have cushy office gigs, training gigs, that they rarely fly the line. by the way, many of these office gigs aren’t advertised to the general population of pilots, creating a good ole boy network of ne’er-do-wells. not to mention our union leaders advocating their expertise for management gigs. my point here is that yes, we make ok money, vacation is nice, but otherwise don’t be swayed by these rah-rah chants, especially early on, like at indoc, when those standing in front of the class are telling you how wonderful things are when in fact they would hardly know given how little they fly the line.
we are professionals. moreover, we are the lifeblood of this company, and yet we are treated like expendable employees, and we are treated this way because we haven’t fought back. we cave. we capitulate. and they laugh at us. and what do our union leaders do? they tell us that we’ll get ‘em next time, but we never do. I have no faith in any of this. cannot wait to retire and be done with this nonsense.
01-23-2023, 09:35 AM
#266
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: F/O
Posts: 127
Before anyone jumps on you I want to say thank you for posting what you did. You put into words so many things I have noticed, but then wondered if maybe it's not just me that doesn't get it. I'm dissatisfied with this job and that's a first in what is becoming a pretty long career at this point. Every job has had it's pluses and minuses, but this is the first time I have actually been just unhappy at a flying job. I am considering re-arranging my life to enable a pay cut, but for now just thinking about it. But it is something I am thinking about more and more.
01-23-2023, 09:56 AM
#268
On Quarantine
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Position: Catering Consumer in Command
Posts: 21
Also want to reiterate you are not alone in this sentiment and I appreciate everything you said here. I am normally an optimist and I do think things can get better here but it wont come without a fight. Management has definitely gotten a great deal with how they can change our schedules at will. Imagine the efficiency they have compared to our pax counterparts. That alone is millions and millions saved per year of which we should be getting part of to put up with it all. We used to put up with it when the money was way better than the rest but that just isn't the case anymore. Either the money has got to get way better or the work rules have to get way better but really BOTH should get way better.
01-23-2023, 10:03 AM
#269
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Posts: 641
01-23-2023, 12:46 PM
#270
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2017
Posts: 2,140
As for your PBS comment, where did that come from? If you think concessions need to be made in order to get improvements, get that mentality out of your head, Negotiations require leverage in order to get what you want, that’s it. If we have leverage, no concessions required. If we don’t have leverage, we don’t need to agree to anything. I can live on my BLG, so I’m very patient to wait for the time when we do have leverage.
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