You mean in September it will be.:D

I don't consider just now passing a pay rate that has been frozen for 3 years as much to brag about. Hopefully we will do better. If not, I certainly will not be bragging about it. That $395 rate that I mentioned is what the United top pay rate would be today if you increased their 2019 rate by 3% a year.

As far as switching to a single pay rate goes with seat movement, it will take years for that to work itself through the system. Again, 90% of our crew force is on wide body pay already, and that doesn't include those on junior activation pay.

Let's just hope that we, as well as the passenger carriers, have contracts that leave UPS looking like redheaded step children. I'd like to see a tsunami of a rising tide, not just a slightly flooded creek.

Totally agree with one caveat. Nobody comes close to our 74 pay. It’s a technicality, since no other top tier carrier operates them, but true nonetheless. PLEASE, smoke us on rates. As the only pilot group getting raises the last couple years, it’s getting increasingly difficult to argue for a raise when we already make more. I don’t care (too much) how much I make compared to whoever, I do care if my paycheck is keeping up with inflation and the increased profit I bring my company.

Spin it however ALPA tells you to, but the fact remains: FedEx pilots are undercutting cargo pilot pay rates by flying the same planes for a lot less money. If your wide body pay was significantly higher than UPS’ then maybe it would make sense.

Raise the bar and stop your B scale. A 747 isn’t any harder to fly than a 757. The profits produced by the FDX pilot group should have their 757 pilots making at least what UPS pilots make.

No thanks. Next…

Ok… I guess some folks like second rate pay

Ray,

Larger airplanes shouldn’t pay more money? This is the case even in the none union corporate world. AA isn’t ALPA and they have airplane size tied to pay and same for Atlas who is Teamsters. It is industry standard to have a compensation scale in this manner. One could argue UPS is dragging the industry WB pay scale down by blending it with a NB pay scale. Be careful throwing stones for one may come back and hit you between the eyes.

From the DALPA Contract Comparison:

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...b02b0cd003.png

Yes, longevity pay vs. type pay is unique to UPS.

I don't think there's any kind of legitimate argument we're "dragging down" anything with regards to compensation, though.

I may be understanding how this all works incorrectly, but here goes.

How is UPS getting past the $61,000 limit (2022 numbers)?

I get that a higher B-plan percentage gets more of UPS’s money into the pot rather than your own, but at a certain point you can’t put any more in over the IRS limit.

By my calculations (which may be wrong), for someone maxing out their B-plan, UPS pilots pay about $8,500/year less into it than we do, but at the end of the year both UPS and FedEx pilots have $61,000 in their respective B-plans. Add another $6,500 if they are eligible for catch-up contributions.

Throw all paradigms out about wide body and narrow body pay. The only comparison you should use to measure your pay is UPS. You FedEx guys should not be flying the same plane for 30% less than UPS does.

To spin it is just making excuses. If you maintain a B scale then at least make sure your wide body rates blow UPS rates out of the water.

Boiler,

I mentioned that we should be looking at United's last pay rate effective on January 1, 2019 instead of the latest contract extension from UPS. That rate was $254/hour. UPS hasn't passed that rate yet, however, on September 1, 2022 you will. That United rate in 2019 would equate to $395/hour today if you use a 3% annual pay increase for 3.67 years.

That seemed to make some of your pilots upset. Their comments are below.


I have stated that I am in favor of floating all boats, and hope our pilot group will have the resolve to do so. I never said UPS was dragging anyone down, unlike the disgruntled pilots above. The people quoted above have been the ones who have mentioned "B" scale pay and hurting the industry. Even the chart you posted shows that in 2019, you were behind the passenger carriers highest pay rates. As far as I know, their planes aren't any harder to fly than our, if that is the argument. I'll say again, I hope that we will do much better than barely passing United's pay rate from 2019. That's not a dig, it is just moving the target away from going slightly higher than the latest contract extension.

Are you guys talking about splitting your pay scales like the rest of the industry does? If not, why does Ray Kinsella give a crap if we do?