Pman

They should never get rid of the the PIC requirement. No reason to.

Corned Beef

We lose out on good candidates because we require PIC time. There are folks who get called to legacies and fly wide bodies there with no pic time.

There are airlines that groom zero pic captains all over the industry and create fantastic captains. We can do the same here, it’s all up to our training department.

Also, I’m not saying let’s open the doors and hire everyone and their mother without PIC time, but there are candidates out there who have more than just a type rating on their resume that make up for no PIC time. We aren’t hiring massive amounts without a degree now, same difference with PIC time.

We’re one of the last to hold on to the PIC requirement, it’s time to adjust to the market and it go.

threeighteen

No.

Part of being a good candidate is having PIC experience. The last thing you want to do as a 777 or MD-11 CA is head to the bunk to take a nap when you have two new-hire FOs sitting in the window seats with 0 PIC time and maybe 1000hrs of SIC time in a turbine aircraft but got hired because they got a PE from their parents or brother or whatever and the rest of their resume checks a bunch of boxes for HR. A good training department can't completely make up for a lack of experience.

The problem with getting rid of the requirement is that once you do, the doors *do* open to hiring everyone and their mother without PIC time whether you like that or not.

With PIC experience being so abundant right now at the regional level, if FedEx is someone's number one, there's no reason why they can't get it within 6-8 months. And if someone would rather go to Delta instead of grab some PIC, I'm not sure if we're missing out by not hiring them since their actions say that they don't actually want to be here anyway.

Let's let the legacies scrape the bottom of the barrel and we can continue pick off the experienced pilots we like from them. And let's fight hard to make sure we get the contract that we deserve so we can continue to do that.

pinseeker

So are you saying that we aren't getting quality pilots with the current requirements? If not, then why lower the requirements when FedEx has no problem filling classes? I know, everyone else is doing it, so let's enter the race for mediocrity.

Corned Beef

ahh yes, the old "experience is king". Be careful on those international deadheads then, because UL/DL have zero PIC FO's in their widebodies and they just might fall out of the sky with those low experience pilots! Typical old school thought process.

I don't think we would be "scraping the bottom" if we snagged low time or zero time PIC pilots that are well rounded candidates that bring more than just experience to the table. I'll reiterate, training is key.

At the end of the day, FDX will hire at the ATP minimums if they have to to keep their airline running, it's all market driven, not what the training department or what we want. We're still hitting our hiring minimums at this time, but I do think it's a matter of if not when we drop this.


And I gotta add, how could you tell someone to wait 8 months to build pic time to come here when they got a call from United or Delta? the majority would run for the hills and get the seniority because that is what is king in this industry. We certainly have a good gig here at fedex but I don’t think we’re the best thing since sliced bread.

Corned Beef

I'm sorry, could you highlight where I said we aren't hiring quality candidates at this time? Maybe I've lost the ability to read my own post.

pinseeker

You did say we lose out on good candidates because we require PIC time. Who cares, unless we are hiring bad candidates. I'm sure there are lots of pilots that didn't get hired by FedEx who are excellent pilots flying at the legacies or UPS because they didn't make it past the interview or test. Let's just get rid of all of that and if you meet the requirements to be a type rated FO and hold a passport, you get hired. First come first serve.

Corned Beef

Ahh ok, so you read my post and completely misinterpreted it. Got it.

Good point! We did just change our interview process to make it easier for candidates! So I think you're on to something now!!! As I said before, if we had to, we would hire wet ATP certs to move freight. It's market demand, not what makes you feel comfortable in the left seat.

All I am saying is lets get with the rest of the industry and change the PIC time to preferred. It will simply allow us to snag those who want to come here before they go to a legacy and get stuck there for their entire career when they would've been great employees here. Instead, we have folks who are at SWA with no PIC who want to come here. He/she flies the 737, prob has other type ratings, doesn't meet the PIC requirements. I'd feel more than comfortable flying around the world with that individual. THIS is where I would say the PIC requirement can be waived because we are missing out on a good candidate for our airline.

threeighteen

Not a legit comparison as typically at least one of the FOs on a United/DL/AA wide-body has a high level of experience as the non-bunkie seat on wide-body there is more senior than junior 777CA here at FedEx. Junior 777CA at FedEx has probably been at FedEx less time than the most Junior A350 FO at DL.

But they've had their issues too. I think it was a United wide-body that diverted in Cold Bay with a cracked windshield and the FOs didn't even bother to wake the captain up to ask him first...

A big part of being well-rounded is having real world experience.

We'll see how the degree requirement relaxation goes. We're about to open up our app pool to a lot of well-rounded, highly experienced guys that couldn't come here because they didn't have a stupid piece of paper. Chances are the world will be in a recession before we burn through that pile of apps and the pool of guys with PIC time will start trending the other way again.

Easy. Tell them: if FedEx is your number one, don't put your UA/DL/AA/WN/etc app in until you have the PIC to apply at FedEx. If FedEx isn't number one, apply to UA/DL/AA right away and grab that seniority there if they call first. If not, apply at FedEx when you have the PIC.

We're not the best thing since sliced bread, but right now we have plenty of people who want to be here and are willing to go get the PIC to do so. Why should we remove a layer of Swiss-cheese just to attract the people who kinda want to be here but aren't willing to hold out for 8 months to go get some PIC?

Corned Beef

I'll make this argument: it doesn't matter if it's wide body or not, an airplane is an airplane and all of them have their unique challenges depending on what theatre you fly in. There are 2 year upgrades at DL with zero pic time in narrow bodies. So now you'll have no PIC on top of no PIC without the super senior CA in the bunk. I also know plenty of junior folks who sit right seat in wide bodies at other airlines who fly with other junior FO/RFO's, your theory won't be the common in the near future. Also, it sounds like the crew got the airplane on the ground safely, that's what is important there. I can bet we've got plenty of "experienced" captains who have diverted for MEL'able items at fedex as well without bringing in all available resources. One story doesn't justify your theory.


Yep, the guy at SWA has that and them some. Just not your precious PIC time.



We've got a lot of well-rounded, highly qualified individuals who don't have the stupid PIC time too. Same difference. I'd rather have people skills than 500TPIC.



LOL, right, miss out on [i[thousands[/i] of numbers of seniority to hold off for this precious FedEx gig. Brilliant advice buddy.

You are right, we are hitting our numbers now, but I am willing to bet this "layer of swiss cheese" will be removed here in the future. Regional airlines train folks from a 172 to fly a transport category airplane to be a PIC with people in the back with 1,000 hours SIC, successfully, all the time. Why cant we take that same candidate and train them to fly our cargo aircraft? It's literally the same thing.