Negotiations
02-03-2022, 11:14 PM
#91
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Position: Fetal in the hub
Posts: 414
The outcome has been telegraphed from the start. Like shhhhhh don't tell anyone we are negotiating the PSPP that would be negotiating in public. Meanwhile the previous failed effort was publicly declared AND "negotiated" outside of section 6. Excellent work. If you think they've shelved that concept you're exceedingly naive. It is a concession, period. We take on longevity and market risk. That is CONCESIONARY!!! The idea that the whole thing is gonna be engineered so cleverly that it will mitigate those factors is beyond ludicrous!
Its time for a gut check folks. No one here should have a fear of loss. Our position is strong. We've acted with exemplary zeal in the face of the worst global pandemic in several generations. Pilots have died at work during this s@#%!! Hotel lockdowns, invasive screening, quarantines!! All while FedEx has been making BANK with record setting revenues. Couple that with a significant need for more pilots and I gotta ask wth aren't we asking for EVERYTHING instead of grousing about what we are unwilling to negotiate for fear it will cost us elsewehere.
#noconcessions
Walk a way from negotiating. Inform the crewforce we aint getting a contract anytime soon so buckle up its gonna be a fight. Then its time to do an old school "Flying The Line" type campaign. Let everybody know IN PUBLIC we are not settling nor giving back any thing.
I'm old enough to remember what a successful union campaign looked like and this my friends ain't it.
02-03-2022, 11:26 PM
#92
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2012
Position: Two Wheeler FrontSeat
Posts: 1,162
And no one is forcing you to stay. Now that we've stated the obvious please explain to the class the justification for allowing new hire pay to be so pathetically low. This is that stupid zero sum, limited negotiating capital, we must give something up to get something else mentality on full display. You guys are a management team's fantasy adversary. These guy walk into the deal knowing "THESE CLOWNS ARE GONNA GIVE US SOMETHING AND IF THEY GIVE US SOMETHING WE CAN TAKE IT ALL". The 2015 contract was concessionary garbage if you cannot see that in even in retrospect I'm pretty sure we can count on you to vote FOR the next one regardless of what's in it.
The outcome has been telegraphed from the start. Like shhhhhh don't tell anyone we are negotiating the PSPP that would be negotiating in public. Meanwhile the previous failed effort was publicly declared AND "negotiated" outside of section 6. Excellent work. If you think they've shelved that concept you're exceedingly naive. It is a concession, period. We take on longevity and market risk. That is CONCESIONARY!!! The idea that the whole thing is gonna be engineered so cleverly that it will mitigate those factors is beyond ludicrous!
Its time for a gut check folks. No one here should have a fear of loss. Our position is strong. We've acted with exemplary zeal in the face of the worst global pandemic in several generations. Pilots have died at work during this s@#%!! Hotel lockdowns, invasive screening, quarantines!! All while FedEx has been making BANK with record setting revenues. Couple that with a significant need for more pilots and I gotta ask wth aren't we asking for EVERYTHING instead of grousing about what we are unwilling to negotiate for fear it will cost us elsewehere.
#noconcessions
Walk a way from negotiating. Inform the crewforce we aint getting a contract anytime soon so buckle up its gonna be a fight. Then its time to do an old school "Flying The Line" type campaign. Let everybody know IN PUBLIC we are not settling nor giving back any thing.
I'm old enough to remember what a successful union campaign looked like and this my friends ain't it.
The outcome has been telegraphed from the start. Like shhhhhh don't tell anyone we are negotiating the PSPP that would be negotiating in public. Meanwhile the previous failed effort was publicly declared AND "negotiated" outside of section 6. Excellent work. If you think they've shelved that concept you're exceedingly naive. It is a concession, period. We take on longevity and market risk. That is CONCESIONARY!!! The idea that the whole thing is gonna be engineered so cleverly that it will mitigate those factors is beyond ludicrous!
Its time for a gut check folks. No one here should have a fear of loss. Our position is strong. We've acted with exemplary zeal in the face of the worst global pandemic in several generations. Pilots have died at work during this s@#%!! Hotel lockdowns, invasive screening, quarantines!! All while FedEx has been making BANK with record setting revenues. Couple that with a significant need for more pilots and I gotta ask wth aren't we asking for EVERYTHING instead of grousing about what we are unwilling to negotiate for fear it will cost us elsewehere.
#noconcessions
Walk a way from negotiating. Inform the crewforce we aint getting a contract anytime soon so buckle up its gonna be a fight. Then its time to do an old school "Flying The Line" type campaign. Let everybody know IN PUBLIC we are not settling nor giving back any thing.
I'm old enough to remember what a successful union campaign looked like and this my friends ain't it.
02-04-2022, 03:24 AM
#93
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2012
Posts: 705
And no one is forcing you to stay. Now that we've stated the obvious please explain to the class the justification for allowing new hire pay to be so pathetically low. This is that stupid zero sum, limited negotiating capital, we must give something up to get something else mentality on full display. You guys are a management team's fantasy adversary. These guy walk into the deal knowing "THESE CLOWNS ARE GONNA GIVE US SOMETHING AND IF THEY GIVE US SOMETHING WE CAN TAKE IT ALL". The 2015 contract was concessionary garbage if you cannot see that in even in retrospect I'm pretty sure we can count on you to vote FOR the next one regardless of what's in it.
The outcome has been telegraphed from the start. Like shhhhhh don't tell anyone we are negotiating the PSPP that would be negotiating in public. Meanwhile the previous failed effort was publicly declared AND "negotiated" outside of section 6. Excellent work. If you think they've shelved that concept you're exceedingly naive. It is a concession, period. We take on longevity and market risk. That is CONCESIONARY!!! The idea that the whole thing is gonna be engineered so cleverly that it will mitigate those factors is beyond ludicrous!
Its time for a gut check folks. No one here should have a fear of loss. Our position is strong. We've acted with exemplary zeal in the face of the worst global pandemic in several generations. Pilots have died at work during this s@#%!! Hotel lockdowns, invasive screening, quarantines!! All while FedEx has been making BANK with record setting revenues. Couple that with a significant need for more pilots and I gotta ask wth aren't we asking for EVERYTHING instead of grousing about what we are unwilling to negotiate for fear it will cost us elsewehere.
#noconcessions
Walk a way from negotiating. Inform the crewforce we aint getting a contract anytime soon so buckle up its gonna be a fight. Then its time to do an old school "Flying The Line" type campaign. Let everybody know IN PUBLIC we are not settling nor giving back any thing.
I'm old enough to remember what a successful union campaign looked like and this my friends ain't it.
The outcome has been telegraphed from the start. Like shhhhhh don't tell anyone we are negotiating the PSPP that would be negotiating in public. Meanwhile the previous failed effort was publicly declared AND "negotiated" outside of section 6. Excellent work. If you think they've shelved that concept you're exceedingly naive. It is a concession, period. We take on longevity and market risk. That is CONCESIONARY!!! The idea that the whole thing is gonna be engineered so cleverly that it will mitigate those factors is beyond ludicrous!
Its time for a gut check folks. No one here should have a fear of loss. Our position is strong. We've acted with exemplary zeal in the face of the worst global pandemic in several generations. Pilots have died at work during this s@#%!! Hotel lockdowns, invasive screening, quarantines!! All while FedEx has been making BANK with record setting revenues. Couple that with a significant need for more pilots and I gotta ask wth aren't we asking for EVERYTHING instead of grousing about what we are unwilling to negotiate for fear it will cost us elsewehere.
#noconcessions
Walk a way from negotiating. Inform the crewforce we aint getting a contract anytime soon so buckle up its gonna be a fight. Then its time to do an old school "Flying The Line" type campaign. Let everybody know IN PUBLIC we are not settling nor giving back any thing.
I'm old enough to remember what a successful union campaign looked like and this my friends ain't it.
02-04-2022, 06:16 AM
#94
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2019
Posts: 168
Most people that command $200K/year know the difference between commiserate and commensurate.
If you read up on your history, the seniority system is a huge component of safety culture in aviation as it eliminates a lot of egregious behavior on both the management and crew side of many issues. Getting sleazy won't advance a seniority number and standing tall on a safety issue won't make your seniority number worse.
If you read up on your history, the seniority system is a huge component of safety culture in aviation as it eliminates a lot of egregious behavior on both the management and crew side of many issues. Getting sleazy won't advance a seniority number and standing tall on a safety issue won't make your seniority number worse.
02-04-2022, 09:55 AM
#95
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: 777 Captain in Training
Posts: 1,457
And no one is forcing you to stay. Now that we've stated the obvious please explain to the class the justification for allowing new hire pay to be so pathetically low. This is that stupid zero sum, limited negotiating capital, we must give something up to get something else mentality on full display. You guys are a management team's fantasy adversary. These guy walk into the deal knowing "THESE CLOWNS ARE GONNA GIVE US SOMETHING AND IF THEY GIVE US SOMETHING WE CAN TAKE IT ALL". The 2015 contract was concessionary garbage if you cannot see that in even in retrospect I'm pretty sure we can count on you to vote FOR the next one regardless of what's in it.
The outcome has been telegraphed from the start. Like shhhhhh don't tell anyone we are negotiating the PSPP that would be negotiating in public. Meanwhile the previous failed effort was publicly declared AND "negotiated" outside of section 6. Excellent work. If you think they've shelved that concept you're exceedingly naive. It is a concession, period. We take on longevity and market risk. That is CONCESIONARY!!! The idea that the whole thing is gonna be engineered so cleverly that it will mitigate those factors is beyond ludicrous!
Its time for a gut check folks. No one here should have a fear of loss. Our position is strong. We've acted with exemplary zeal in the face of the worst global pandemic in several generations. Pilots have died at work during this s@#%!! Hotel lockdowns, invasive screening, quarantines!! All while FedEx has been making BANK with record setting revenues. Couple that with a significant need for more pilots and I gotta ask wth aren't we asking for EVERYTHING instead of grousing about what we are unwilling to negotiate for fear it will cost us elsewehere.
#noconcessions
Walk a way from negotiating. Inform the crewforce we aint getting a contract anytime soon so buckle up its gonna be a fight. Then its time to do an old school "Flying The Line" type campaign. Let everybody know IN PUBLIC we are not settling nor giving back any thing.
I'm old enough to remember what a successful union campaign looked like and this my friends ain't it.
The outcome has been telegraphed from the start. Like shhhhhh don't tell anyone we are negotiating the PSPP that would be negotiating in public. Meanwhile the previous failed effort was publicly declared AND "negotiated" outside of section 6. Excellent work. If you think they've shelved that concept you're exceedingly naive. It is a concession, period. We take on longevity and market risk. That is CONCESIONARY!!! The idea that the whole thing is gonna be engineered so cleverly that it will mitigate those factors is beyond ludicrous!
Its time for a gut check folks. No one here should have a fear of loss. Our position is strong. We've acted with exemplary zeal in the face of the worst global pandemic in several generations. Pilots have died at work during this s@#%!! Hotel lockdowns, invasive screening, quarantines!! All while FedEx has been making BANK with record setting revenues. Couple that with a significant need for more pilots and I gotta ask wth aren't we asking for EVERYTHING instead of grousing about what we are unwilling to negotiate for fear it will cost us elsewehere.
#noconcessions
Walk a way from negotiating. Inform the crewforce we aint getting a contract anytime soon so buckle up its gonna be a fight. Then its time to do an old school "Flying The Line" type campaign. Let everybody know IN PUBLIC we are not settling nor giving back any thing.
I'm old enough to remember what a successful union campaign looked like and this my friends ain't it.
02-04-2022, 10:11 AM
#96
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,123
And I don't know why the union is negotiating for hotels for new-hires. That's the company's problem. Union should be negotiating for training hotels for line pilots like every single other major has.
02-04-2022, 10:59 AM
#97
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Position: MD-11/C-17
Posts: 268
why not both? You know every legacy pays for new hire hotels right?
02-04-2022, 12:10 PM
#99
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Position: Fetal in the hub
Posts: 414
so yeah increase new hire pay and stop grousing about it.
we're in the driver's seat. Time to ante up and check in like men!!!
02-04-2022, 02:28 PM
#100
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,624
And no one is forcing you to stay. Now that we've stated the obvious please explain to the class the justification for allowing new hire pay to be so pathetically low. This is that stupid zero sum, limited negotiating capital, we must give something up to get something else mentality on full display. You guys are a management team's fantasy adversary. These guy walk into the deal knowing "THESE CLOWNS ARE GONNA GIVE US SOMETHING AND IF THEY GIVE US SOMETHING WE CAN TAKE IT ALL". The 2015 contract was concessionary garbage if you cannot see that in even in retrospect I'm pretty sure we can count on you to vote FOR the next one regardless of what's in it.
The outcome has been telegraphed from the start. Like shhhhhh don't tell anyone we are negotiating the PSPP that would be negotiating in public. Meanwhile the previous failed effort was publicly declared AND "negotiated" outside of section 6. Excellent work. If you think they've shelved that concept you're exceedingly naive. It is a concession, period. We take on longevity and market risk. That is CONCESIONARY!!! The idea that the whole thing is gonna be engineered so cleverly that it will mitigate those factors is beyond ludicrous!
Its time for a gut check folks. No one here should have a fear of loss. Our position is strong. We've acted with exemplary zeal in the face of the worst global pandemic in several generations. Pilots have died at work during this s@#%!! Hotel lockdowns, invasive screening, quarantines!! All while FedEx has been making BANK with record setting revenues. Couple that with a significant need for more pilots and I gotta ask wth aren't we asking for EVERYTHING instead of grousing about what we are unwilling to negotiate for fear it will cost us elsewehere.
#noconcessions
Walk a way from negotiating. Inform the crewforce we aint getting a contract anytime soon so buckle up its gonna be a fight. Then its time to do an old school "Flying The Line" type campaign. Let everybody know IN PUBLIC we are not settling nor giving back any thing.
I'm old enough to remember what a successful union campaign looked like and this my friends ain't it.
The outcome has been telegraphed from the start. Like shhhhhh don't tell anyone we are negotiating the PSPP that would be negotiating in public. Meanwhile the previous failed effort was publicly declared AND "negotiated" outside of section 6. Excellent work. If you think they've shelved that concept you're exceedingly naive. It is a concession, period. We take on longevity and market risk. That is CONCESIONARY!!! The idea that the whole thing is gonna be engineered so cleverly that it will mitigate those factors is beyond ludicrous!
Its time for a gut check folks. No one here should have a fear of loss. Our position is strong. We've acted with exemplary zeal in the face of the worst global pandemic in several generations. Pilots have died at work during this s@#%!! Hotel lockdowns, invasive screening, quarantines!! All while FedEx has been making BANK with record setting revenues. Couple that with a significant need for more pilots and I gotta ask wth aren't we asking for EVERYTHING instead of grousing about what we are unwilling to negotiate for fear it will cost us elsewehere.
#noconcessions
Walk a way from negotiating. Inform the crewforce we aint getting a contract anytime soon so buckle up its gonna be a fight. Then its time to do an old school "Flying The Line" type campaign. Let everybody know IN PUBLIC we are not settling nor giving back any thing.
I'm old enough to remember what a successful union campaign looked like and this my friends ain't it.
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