Vaccination status
12-23-2021, 12:21 PM
#161
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,221
Well if you intentionally bid a line that has trips you know you legally cannot fly, should you get paid, should you get OTP and get priority in open time? You shouldn’t get an unfair advantage in open time or get paid 125% because you bid a trip you legally can’t fly. What is adverse is giving a guy priority in open time as reward for bidding a line with trips they can’t fly….it’s adverse for the folks who get screwed out of a trip because he uses OTP to trump their earlier trip trade.
Adverse is having the seniority to avoid CAN, TPE, SIN then getting revised to go there and cover for a crew member who is not legally allowed to enter the country (unvaccinated). And some thing those individuals should get to sit at home on SUB and cherry pick with OTP?
12-23-2021, 02:10 PM
#163
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: MD11 Captain
Posts: 364
Exactly. If I was management and wanted to apply pressure on pilots to comply that’s exactly what I would tell everyone - because we have no way whatsoever of knowing if it’s remotely true or not.
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12-23-2021, 02:24 PM
#164
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2018
Posts: 95
I'm reading that there's a stay for health care workers but not for the 100 person business mandate... Either way that will depend on the SCOTUS ruling and it has to deal with the Federal Government mandating it. With previous Scotus rulings the company can simply mandate it and if they need to in order to get us in and out of these countries they will.
The new Fcif is a nice compromise. If yall think you'll get paid to sit at home while the vaccinated pilots fly all the cargo you're mistaken. The 777 probably won't be able to avoid vaccination but the other fleets probably will. I do think FedEx would rather not mandate it if they don't have to.
Supreme Court schedules January 7 oral arguments in challenges to Biden vaccine mandates (msn.com)
The new Fcif is a nice compromise. If yall think you'll get paid to sit at home while the vaccinated pilots fly all the cargo you're mistaken. The 777 probably won't be able to avoid vaccination but the other fleets probably will. I do think FedEx would rather not mandate it if they don't have to.
Supreme Court schedules January 7 oral arguments in challenges to Biden vaccine mandates (msn.com)
- however -
I don’t think this is a nice compromise it is continued capitulation without a fight. The company has unceasingly run roughshod over the pilot group with their interpretation of contract items which ends up with the pilot on the short end of the stick. Pilots are left to impotently wring their hands. That happens all the time with the contract. But this is different, it is the law of the great State of Tennessee. It is much more difficult to run roughshod over the legal rights versus the contractual rights of individuals.
Why not take a stand here and knock the company into their place for a freaking change instead of keeping a Washington generals-like streak alive? It would probably give a little tailwind during mediation/arbitration or whatever if it is shown that the company exploits the legal rights of employees in this kind of manner.
ex - If you end up with a 14 day footprint blocked on your schedule with nqn and you actually tried to bid around that trip, what are your options if there are no trips in open time that don’t go to vax required areas? ZERO pay that month and no makeup bank. There are so many secondary implications from this compromise - the pilot group will get screwed, it is probably illegal, and we are once again cowering in the corner.
On another note, that Brazil vax requirement for aircrew got turned off in about 12 hours. I think the company has leverage for carve outs they just don’t want the hassle
12-23-2021, 03:51 PM
#165
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2016
Posts: 101
If nobody responded, then nobody would be adversely affected. because then you’d be removed from the trip like everyone else.
If you did voluntarily respond with a “vaccinated status,” that’s your own fault. Shouldn’t volunteer information that isn’t mandatory.
you should’ve waited till there was word from the Union, and there was, and they said you didn’t have to inform the company. If you responded before that, or after that, it’s your fault, and only your fault.
the union spoke, if you had listened, then it would allow the union a position to demand something in return.
by volunteering info that isn’t required, you undermine the chance for union to act. Maybe they’ll still have the chance if the company is lying about “thousands.”
If you did voluntarily respond with a “vaccinated status,” that’s your own fault. Shouldn’t volunteer information that isn’t mandatory.
you should’ve waited till there was word from the Union, and there was, and they said you didn’t have to inform the company. If you responded before that, or after that, it’s your fault, and only your fault.
the union spoke, if you had listened, then it would allow the union a position to demand something in return.
by volunteering info that isn’t required, you undermine the chance for union to act. Maybe they’ll still have the chance if the company is lying about “thousands.”
12-23-2021, 04:17 PM
#166
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2020
Posts: 32
If nobody responded, then nobody would be adversely affected. because then you’d be removed from the trip like everyone else.
If you did voluntarily respond with a “vaccinated status,” that’s your own fault. Shouldn’t volunteer information that isn’t mandatory.
you should’ve waited till there was word from the Union, and there was, and they said you didn’t have to inform the company. If you responded before that, or after that, it’s your fault, and only your fault.
the union spoke, if you had listened, then it would allow the union a position to demand something in return.
by volunteering info that isn’t required, you undermine the chance for union to act. Maybe they’ll still have the chance if the company is lying about “thousands.”
If you did voluntarily respond with a “vaccinated status,” that’s your own fault. Shouldn’t volunteer information that isn’t mandatory.
you should’ve waited till there was word from the Union, and there was, and they said you didn’t have to inform the company. If you responded before that, or after that, it’s your fault, and only your fault.
the union spoke, if you had listened, then it would allow the union a position to demand something in return.
by volunteering info that isn’t required, you undermine the chance for union to act. Maybe they’ll still have the chance if the company is lying about “thousands.”
12-23-2021, 10:05 PM
#167
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,118
A strong, unified pilot group would support the individuals who have not gotten vaccinated, not turn against them, especially during a period of negotiations. Getting vaccinated benefits the company, not getting vaccinated creates issues for the company that can't (yet) be considered illegal work action.
Some of ya'll made the mistake of telling the company that you got vaccinated, and while that's not ideal, it's also not the end of the world, just stop turning against those that are holding the other end of the same line. You wouldn't be getting revised to operate "vaccinated-only" trips if you hadn't disclosed that information, so it's not your fellow pilots' fault. Sleep in the bed you made, put pressure on the union for a better contract with stiffer penalties for revisions/substitutions, and no more side deals/LOAs/MOUs.
It's time to support fellow pilots through this time, not the company.
Regardless, no "pay for shot" deal should be signed or even asked for, until there is a new CBA.
Some of ya'll made the mistake of telling the company that you got vaccinated, and while that's not ideal, it's also not the end of the world, just stop turning against those that are holding the other end of the same line. You wouldn't be getting revised to operate "vaccinated-only" trips if you hadn't disclosed that information, so it's not your fellow pilots' fault. Sleep in the bed you made, put pressure on the union for a better contract with stiffer penalties for revisions/substitutions, and no more side deals/LOAs/MOUs.
It's time to support fellow pilots through this time, not the company.
Regardless, no "pay for shot" deal should be signed or even asked for, until there is a new CBA.
Last edited by threeighteen; 12-23-2021 at 10:32 PM. Reason: grammar, clarity
12-23-2021, 10:30 PM
#168
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2021
Posts: 442
Ask yourself if this is professional treatment of the pilots and fair compensation. That is what we should demand.
Then ask yourself if the timing was on purpose or not. Then ask question one and two again.
Stay focused on professional treatment and fair compensation. Now and as we negotiate our next contract.
My ask just went up, How about yours?
in the end this is an emotionally charged distraction to move focus away from the real prize. I support people's rights. Your body, your choice. Consult your doctor and make your decision. There is a path forward.
Then ask yourself if the timing was on purpose or not. Then ask question one and two again.
Stay focused on professional treatment and fair compensation. Now and as we negotiate our next contract.
My ask just went up, How about yours?
in the end this is an emotionally charged distraction to move focus away from the real prize. I support people's rights. Your body, your choice. Consult your doctor and make your decision. There is a path forward.
12-24-2021, 10:26 AM
#169
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2018
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 155
My thoughts also. How can we operate to countries who require vaccination, but yet not require our crew members to disclose vaccination status. Cant have it both ways. You obviously cant send unvaccinated pilots to those countries so you have to ask. I guess if you say no or not willing to disclose you wont be going to those countries. So now the vaccinated group get rerouted into those countries. This will creat dissent between the vaccinated an unvaccinated. Lets say China starts requiring vaccination with no crew exemption. Now if you are vaccinated you will be on full time China duty while the unvaccinated get to only go to the more opened up countries in Europe. Sounds messy.
12-24-2021, 01:51 PM
#170
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2013
Position: No Hats No Jackets No PAX
Posts: 1,559
Really do appreciate the DMV info though, good to know - Thanks again.
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