Vaccination status
12-19-2021, 07:14 PM
#91
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: MD11 FO
Posts: 1,124
Much easier fix on this. Pilots that are awarded trips requiring vaccination and not vaccinated shall be removed from this trips without pay or ability to a make up. Start there then we will see where we are with the February deadline. You always knew some vaccinations would be required in this job (unless you were a moron). No one wants to take away your rights - feel free to quit or bid only domestic.
12-19-2021, 07:17 PM
#92
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: MD11 FO
Posts: 1,124
What is it with people wanting to see the contract from a unique position that benefits only themselves? The contract represents the entire group.
25.H.2.g
The pilot is removed from the trip because he will or is projected to exceed FAR limitations or because of other government controlled restrictions.
If the Company wants to negotiate some kind of Vaccination LOA or MOU that supersedes the current substitution language like literally every other major carrier has negotiated, then do it. ALPA will speak for me.
Until then, we’ll just abide by the current language and the Union/Company can hash it out. If individuals would like disclose their medical status free of charge, it’s a free country. Go for it. But you’re doing that in a personal capacity and outside of the union and contract language. Ultimately, you’re negotiating for yourself, instead of the group; as evidenced by your willingness to have your brethren removed without pay despite the words of the CBA. IMO, it cheapens us as a group. But that is for the individual to decide.
25.H.2.g
The pilot is removed from the trip because he will or is projected to exceed FAR limitations or because of other government controlled restrictions.
If the Company wants to negotiate some kind of Vaccination LOA or MOU that supersedes the current substitution language like literally every other major carrier has negotiated, then do it. ALPA will speak for me.
Until then, we’ll just abide by the current language and the Union/Company can hash it out. If individuals would like disclose their medical status free of charge, it’s a free country. Go for it. But you’re doing that in a personal capacity and outside of the union and contract language. Ultimately, you’re negotiating for yourself, instead of the group; as evidenced by your willingness to have your brethren removed without pay despite the words of the CBA. IMO, it cheapens us as a group. But that is for the individual to decide.
12-19-2021, 07:27 PM
#93
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: MD11 Captain
Posts: 364
Much easier fix on this. Pilots that are awarded trips requiring vaccination and not vaccinated shall be removed from this trips without pay or ability to a make up. Start there then we will see where we are with the February deadline. You always knew some vaccinations would be required in this job (unless you were a moron). No one wants to take away your rights - feel free to quit or bid only domestic.
Sooo, abrogate the CBA and financially penalize pilots who are complying with current company requirements 100%. Got it. Boy, we need people like you at the negotiations table to solve the company’s problems for them!
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12-19-2021, 07:36 PM
#94
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: MD11 FO
Posts: 1,124
Abrogate the CBA? Company requirements evolve as country rules evolve. Right now they haven't laid out a policy for what to do with those that are unvaccinated and are awarded trips requiring vaccination. I assure you it will not end up with those pilots in SUB or some other pay protection while vax pilots carry their load.
12-19-2021, 07:50 PM
#95
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: MD11 Captain
Posts: 364
Abrogate the CBA? Company requirements evolve as country rules evolve. Right now they haven't laid out a policy for what to do with those that are unvaccinated and are awarded trips requiring vaccination. I assure you it will not end up with those pilots in SUB or some other pay protection while vax pilots carry their load.
Has the company mandated the vaccine? No. So there is no requirement to be met and suggesting pilots who are either unvaccinated or choose not to disclose their status lose pay controverts the CBA. Plain and simple. Country rules are not the same thing as company mandates. They can cross that bridge if they choose but it comes with an awful lot of problematic consequences for them. Which is likely why it hasn’t yet been done. I care not whether they do or not but I’m not going to become their problem-solver for free.
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12-19-2021, 09:45 PM
#96
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 909
#2 is the thing that confuses me the absolute most about all these imposed restrictions. While I think it’s safe to say the vaccine does offer SOME protection from getting the virus. It certainly doesn’t stop it. I sympathize with both sides. But the restrictions really don’t make much sense. Even testing before entry. Sure it gives someone a warm and fuzzy and may stop a few people with Covid from getting into a country. But, you can have it. Test negative even with symptoms. Then several days later test positive. It’s all some hocus pocus “preventative” measures that makes someone feel safe, somewhere. And if I’m not mistaken the vaccine does a pretty good job of preventing serious infection/death. Majority of deaths and hospitalizations are from unvaccinated. I didn’t say all. So calm down.
Anywho, if you wanna get vaxxed, get vaxxed! If you don’t wanna get vaxxed, don’t! If you wanna tell them your status, go ahead, if not, don’t. I do t care. The company asked, “Please don’t forget…” They said PLEASE, not you shall or else. They know they can’t require that information. They know that because they continued by saying if you dont respond, you’ll be considered unvaxxed. Period. I answered the question by not answering.
Let’s move along here. We have a contract to get.
12-20-2021, 03:43 AM
#97
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,813
Has the company mandated the vaccine? No. So there is no requirement to be met and suggesting pilots who are either unvaccinated or choose not to disclose their status lose pay controverts the CBA. Plain and simple. Country rules are not the same thing as company mandates. They can cross that bridge if they choose but it comes with an awful lot of problematic consequences for them. Which is likely why it hasn’t yet been done. I care not whether they do or not but I’m not going to become their problem-solver for free.
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
As I pointed out earlier, the examples of not meeting a country controlled requirement indicate that meeting the requirement is in the country's control, not the individuals control. Getting the vaccine is in the individuals control. My guess is that the individual will be removed from the trip and the hours will be put into their make-up bank. If you disagree, fine. As I stated earlier, what happens if you let your medical expire?
12-20-2021, 04:01 AM
#98
Fill'er Up Again
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: Scarebus Captain
Posts: 1,090
Much easier fix on this. Pilots that are awarded trips requiring vaccination and not vaccinated shall be removed from this trips without pay or ability to a make up. Start there then we will see where we are with the February deadline. You always knew some vaccinations would be required in this job (unless you were a moron). No one wants to take away your rights - feel free to quit or bid only domestic.
12-20-2021, 04:36 AM
#99
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,237
I believe the complexion of this job has changed for the foreseeable future.
Flying internationally will require vaccines, tests and mandatory apps on your ipad. You will be confined to hotels or confined to your room.
There are those who will cope with this, and those who won't.
We all have to make that decision. Maybe the company should run another Mother of All Bids so we can all choose......
Flying internationally will require vaccines, tests and mandatory apps on your ipad. You will be confined to hotels or confined to your room.
There are those who will cope with this, and those who won't.
We all have to make that decision. Maybe the company should run another Mother of All Bids so we can all choose......
12-20-2021, 07:19 AM
#100
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2012
Position: Two Wheeler FrontSeat
Posts: 1,162
I believe the complexion of this job has changed for the foreseeable future.
Flying internationally will require vaccines, tests and mandatory apps on your ipad. You will be confined to hotels or confined to your room.
There are those who will cope with this, and those who won't.
We all have to make that decision. Maybe the company should run another Mother of All Bids so we can all choose......
Flying internationally will require vaccines, tests and mandatory apps on your ipad. You will be confined to hotels or confined to your room.
There are those who will cope with this, and those who won't.
We all have to make that decision. Maybe the company should run another Mother of All Bids so we can all choose......
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