BlueMoon

Things that also would change.

117 requires a 30 hour test every 168 hours instead of 24 in 7. So a Sunday evening to Monday night layover wouldn’t really work anymore to reset you for a week.

Also duty extensions are limited to 30 minutes. With the exception you can extend up to 2 hours ONCE. Before you extend past 30 minutes again you need 30 hours of rest.

PW305

The biggest difference is the 2 hour extension under 117 is ‘PIC discretion’ instead of our current system which is ‘everyone goes to 16hrs for the next week if a snowflake falls near Memphis’

iHateAMR

I love when guys like you forget “operational emergencies” which are called without recourse erase any contractual provisions and stretch our limits to... wait for it... FAR limits.

iHateAMR

Was your prior experience at a night cargo outfit with 117 rules?

If we are limited with current 117 rules to 3 consecutive night hub turns, how do you suppose the company will get you up to the contract min guarantee... Free cash? Or another hub turn at a later date?

BoilerUP

I seriously doubt that would happen for FDX (or UPS); sleep rooms provide mitigation and I doubt the FAA would deny a FMRP waiver desired by both management and labor.

iHateAMR

We all know what happens when we assume.

BlueMoon

Except you aren’t limited to 3 nighttime operations. It’s only 3 if you aren’t given two hours in a suitable accommodation. If given two hours in a suitable accommodation it is 5 consecutive night time operations.

Now I’m only guessing a sleep room would qualify as suitable accommodation, but It’s almost like the company somewhat planned for 117buy building a bunch of them.

§ 117.27 Consecutive nighttime operations.
A certificate holder may schedule and a flightcrew member may accept up to five consecutive flight duty periods that infringe on the window of circadian low if the certificate holder provides the flightcrew member with an opportunity to rest in a suitable accommodation during each of the consecutive nighttime flight duty periods. The rest opportunity must be at least 2 hours, measured from the time that the flightcrew member reaches the suitable accommodation, and must comply with the conditions specified in § 117.15(a), (c), (d), and (e). Otherwise, no certificate holder may schedule and no flightcrew member may accept more than three consecutive flight duty periods that infringe on the window of circadian low. For purposes of this section, any split duty rest that is provided in accordance with § 117.15 counts as part of a flight duty period.

PW305

“A layover facility could be a suitable accommodation if it meets the definition of suitable accommodation set out in § 117.3. A room that has multiple reclining chairs with multiple individuals resting could also be a suitable accommodation if it meets the suitable accommodation requirements of § 117.3. The FAA emphasizes that the definition of suitable accommodation in § 117.3 does not require that access to a suitable accommodation be limited so that only one person can use it at any given time.”

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/agc/practice_areas/regulations/part117/Part117_Interps/

Sluggo_63

Assuming the sleep rooms don't count for the mitigation provided for in 117, if I were the company, instead of Monday-Monday week long hub turn weeks with a weekend layover at the very end of the trip, I'd go Wednesday-Wednesday hubturn weeks with the weekend layover in the middle creating two, three-consecutive hubturn trips with a mitigating long layover in the middle.

Still have week-on/week-off parings. Doesn't necessitate another commute.

iHateAMR

So, the company can create unproductive weekend off, worth 12 hours of credit, or split your week and not pay you the 12 hours. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out how they’ll exploit this. Have we not learned our lesson with lie flat seats yet? I have a retirement plan to sell you, bring a fork!