jetstar1

Of the 57% that voted yes, I’d like to know what percentage of that is now retired

Tuck

Sorry just not true - I was watching and had others watching in MEM and this idea that tons of freight was left on the deck in July/Aug is completely wrong - completely. I'm not even sure where the history of this came from. I wasn't a fan of the contract at all but I did feel that we had no leverage - we were very weak then. People were regularly taking their vacation and de-conflcting with trips in order to maximize the sell back. Absolutely no one was protecting min days off - carryover was the same as always. There is zero question in my mind about that. But....we definitely had the potential to have leverage - always do.

Tuck

But for the record I did vote Yes, reluctantly but don't have a problem with the vote. I've found that most of the complaining is a strong misunderstanding of the sections people are angry about. Deviation got better, SLG is better, 24 is pretty much an even trade (I don't like it but many do), work rules were slightly better for the pilots, retirement - well there's so much history there as to what went wrong....

JohnnyViper

OK Tuck, you win (again), sleep well.

pinseeker

This is absolutely not true. I protected min days off and always have. So your statement the no one was protecting min days off is blatantly false. But if believing that helps you sleep at night, so be it. Maybe you agreed with the guys who were picking up extra flights and said it was ok, because they weren’t doing it at draft. Real rocket scientists, solving the companies manning problem at straight time instead of at least making them pay a premium.

Fdxlag2

Tuck used the wrong word and you play gotcha and attack. His point was the freight was moving, peak would have been a success. We could have had leverage (like we did for for the the LOAs and the bridge to no where contract) but we chose not to exercise it. Voting no is a futile gesture if the company is satisfied with the status quo. In the history of the labor movement voting no with out the implied threat of disruption has accomplished nothing.

UnusualAttitude

Sec 24 was not an even trade. 18/24 month training restrictions changed to 24/36/60 month bid restrictions. The ability to manipulate the training letter wasn’t improved and in many cases the SDP is less than the Passover pay would have been.

Hard to argue that section favorably.

-UA

pinseeker

That’s ironic coming from you, LOL. So tell me which word was wrong? I would say that he exaggerated his statement to help him with justifying his position and yes, I called his exaggeration.

No, that is an opinion, not a fact. They had a hard time finding F/O’s to fly to my jumpseat city, and when they did get an “F/O,” it was usually an LCA, so two captains were required to move the freight.

That’s just one city. I remember seeing flights without either a CAP or F/O on the board well after departure time. Now, I didn’t have people watching these flights like Tuck did, but my observation was that things weren’t working smoothly in one of our slowest times of the year.

We will never know if peak would have been a success or not. Again, that’s just your opinion. There were also rumors that the company had a second, better offer ready to present if the TA had been voted down. Rumor is no better than opinion. Again, we will never know.

MEMA300

Doesnt really matter how some pilot quantifies these contracts. When the CFO says on an SEC regulated call to the biz media that the pay raise is more than taken care of with efficiency gains thats all you need to know.

It will be like that every contract. 3-4% pay raise for 5-6% efficiency gains. It is in black and white for those that are willing to look it up.

Go look at a 1997 thru 2007 bid back..

BLOB

Not to be argumentative but I don’t think SLG is better and a lot of guys don’t see why. The secondary vacation options help but the negative effects of SLG far outweigh the gains.

The amount of reserve moved into the secondary process is negative.

What is worse is that SLG allows the company to build secondary lines below contractual minimums even when we aren’t in 4a2b!!! In return those pilots get PNP. For you “senior” guys who say don’t bid a secondary, remember that when the junior guy with PNP snags that trip you want in open time. For the junior guys who would rather have PNP than reserve, remember that PNP doesn’t pay the mortgage and priority doesn’t matter when there is so much out there that it gives no competitive advantage. When things get lean again (and they will) we will see lower secondary guarantees and more PNP.

SLG is cutting payroll costs at our expense and undermines our pay guarantees.

And the icing on the cake. Everybody’s favorite MD11 charter FO is quietly building a war chest of PNP to use when he upgrades.

Do you still think SLG is an improvement?