Why I chose FedEX
02-26-2018, 09:18 AM
#122
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2017
Posts: 121
Timberdux - As a former ECIC counselor, I have spoken directly to hundreds of FedEx candidates over the last 6 years. The ideal scenario you describe used to happen where all the interview invites were passed out and interviews complete before an availability date and the candidate gets to choose his future on equal footing prior to having to commit. That scenario is WAY, WAY old news now. Through 2016 and 2017, I have have directly spoken to some 50+ candidates. How many have you personally spoken to? Not one person in this sample, not one, experienced the ideal timeline you describe. The candidates all were invited to interview at AA, DAL, UA, SWA, UPS, or several of them, they completed and passed their interviews, they were offered CJOs, they were given training dates, and were on property in training, if not completely checked out, flying trips when FedEx finally entered the game. These people, nearly every single one, opened their FedEx e-mail offering an interview while wearing a Delta or American uniform. They are trying to deconflict the FedEx interview from Delta / AA training or actual trips. Sometimes they can deconflict, sometimes they cannot. The eventual reality of a bird-in-hand vs a possibility of a chance of a more desirable bird takes hold. FedEx begins to look at the candidates 30 days out. That in NO WAY means they are offered an interview the next day, 29 days prior. It takes time. FedEx is hiring an average of 36 / month. The interviews are offered often well after the availability date. Agree, I have a small sample size, but I would guess it's a larger sample than you have spoke to directly. I am not trying to be offensive, I am trying to do actual math and add actual numbers to the discussion to prove or disprove this issue. Still TBD. So far, I have flown with nothing but professionals with both mil and civilian backgrounds. It has worked so far, but my point: In a dwindling pool of candidates, this is not a sustainable course of action to getting access to the best candidates first...Allowing them get on property at DAL or AA before we e-mail them...Do you really support that method? Really? This situation is the new reality. Sorry if reality offends you. Don't know how to help you with that.
02-26-2018, 10:50 AM
#124
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: leaning to the left
Posts: 4,184
02-26-2018, 12:43 PM
#125
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jun 2017
Posts: 20
Perhaps you’re getting misinformation. I was offered an interview 6 weeks prior to the interview itself, wasn’t in class until 100 days after initial contact. Most others in my class were in the same boat.
I’m also getting the impression you’re talking exclusively about military pilots, in contrast to a prior claim that our hiring practice is costing us top-tier candidates of all backgrounds, based on you bringing up availability date. 99.9% of civilians have a checkmark next to “2 weeks notice”.
I’m also getting the impression you’re talking exclusively about military pilots, in contrast to a prior claim that our hiring practice is costing us top-tier candidates of all backgrounds, based on you bringing up availability date. 99.9% of civilians have a checkmark next to “2 weeks notice”.
Last edited by Timberdux; 02-26-2018 at 01:07 PM.
02-27-2018, 12:58 AM
#126
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: MD-11
Posts: 395
What some of these guys fail to understand is that their 1000 PIC Turbine is the MINIMUM requirement for getting an interview. Most of the guys on the property here had 3000+ PIC Turbine to get the interview prior to this hiriing wave. Those were the competitive numbers back then. Moreover, I've had to counsel some of these Millennials to tone down their bragging. I tell them they'll be flying with guys/gals with combat experience, air medals, years of bush pilot flying, and thousands of hours 121 PIC Turbine. And while their box work is often very good, their hand flying and decision making are more in line with a young, inexperienced pilot.
I prefer the old way: pilots hiring pilots.
02-27-2018, 01:37 AM
#127
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2005
Posts: 1,275
My experience here shows that quite a few of our new hires are arriving with both an entitlement mentality, and, as the saying goes, "Writing checks there bodies can't cash." It seems to be among the younger crowd (twenties and early thirties) coming from a year or so as captain at their previous outfit.
What some of these guys fail to understand is that their 1000 PIC Turbine is the MINIMUM requirement for getting an interview. Most of the guys on the property here had 3000+ PIC Turbine to get the interview prior to this hiriing wave. Those were the competitive numbers back then. Moreover, I've had to counsel some of these Millennials to tone down their bragging. I tell them they'll be flying with guys/gals with combat experience, air medals, years of bush pilot flying, and thousands of hours 121 PIC Turbine. And while their box work is often very good, their hand flying and decision making are more in line with a young, inexperienced pilot.
I prefer the old way: pilots hiring pilots.
What some of these guys fail to understand is that their 1000 PIC Turbine is the MINIMUM requirement for getting an interview. Most of the guys on the property here had 3000+ PIC Turbine to get the interview prior to this hiriing wave. Those were the competitive numbers back then. Moreover, I've had to counsel some of these Millennials to tone down their bragging. I tell them they'll be flying with guys/gals with combat experience, air medals, years of bush pilot flying, and thousands of hours 121 PIC Turbine. And while their box work is often very good, their hand flying and decision making are more in line with a young, inexperienced pilot.
I prefer the old way: pilots hiring pilots.
02-27-2018, 04:44 AM
#128
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 2,889
Apparently a disgruntled MD-11 pilot found out from a fleet captain the issue--and its not a military issue but a PE issue...
PEs--those once every 10 year hard candy supposed to help your friends--were probably doing the exact opposite. Why? HR decided to play fair and make sure we opened the doors up to non-insiders, so (according the the source--so there may be some distortion here...) it was 80/20 with non PE being the 80% since last March.
So--what did offering your PE do? It basically reduced the chance of your sponsee getting called by a factor of 4.
Now--do I think there needs be a path to bypass sponsorship? Sure. There are some good pilots out there who just don't happen to know anyone here. Should we eliminate 4 out of 5 pilots just because they are a known quantity to someone here? YGTBSM. That is nothing but a slap in the face to the pilots who go to work every day and night here and offered their once in a decade green stamp to try to help them.
From an coaching standpoint--we are going to help any and all clients who want our help. That's what a business does, and my team is glad to help. Guess what? Some of the people we've seen come through have struggled, and do not have the experience of previous candidates. We've also seen more rejections--both on the tests and the interview phase. This tells me the interviewers are not getting as much of what they want either. That isn't to say there aren't some great folks hired since March, and I flown with a couple and they were solid aviators.
What I will say, however is I have never met a pilot at FedEx who would knowingly recommend someone that they didn't feel would be a good fit and a good reflection of them--the sponsor. We all have a friend or two we like--but probably wouldn't recommend. When it comes down to trusting the future of your company, and your retirement--pilots get a little protective. I want my daughter to have the option to work here one day--so I dont' recommend anyone I wouldn't want to be her captain on the line. I've always thought our rec policy insured we got pilots who who knew the challenges of working here--but wanted to come anyway. Anyone can read about the payrates--but are you ready to hub turn, carry a thermos out to the 727 (yeah...old days), sleep in the afternoon and wait for deice on a Memphis ice event for the next 20 years? Most of us wouldn't put our name on someone we didn't think would be a good fit...military or civilian.
So--that's the issue. It wasn't anti-military. It wasn't pro-civilian. It was simply that if a FedEx pilot wanted you--HR didn't...at least 4 out of 5 of them. And--since so many military guys were networked in--they were the first to sniff something was "weird" when their sponsorees weren't getting called.
I still like it here. Its a very interesting mix of jets and flying and it pays very well. It is worth the effort to scale these walls. At least for now, however, you might not want to ask for a PE. It appears to be more of a hindrance than a help, which is absolutely jaw-dropping to me. I hope we get this fixed. And if you haven't figured it out--you damn sure better have a plan B, C, and D. When recommendations hurt you, you officially have a screwed up hiring process. After your first Delta profit sharing check you may just decide you lucked out after all...
PEs--those once every 10 year hard candy supposed to help your friends--were probably doing the exact opposite. Why? HR decided to play fair and make sure we opened the doors up to non-insiders, so (according the the source--so there may be some distortion here...) it was 80/20 with non PE being the 80% since last March.
So--what did offering your PE do? It basically reduced the chance of your sponsee getting called by a factor of 4.
Now--do I think there needs be a path to bypass sponsorship? Sure. There are some good pilots out there who just don't happen to know anyone here. Should we eliminate 4 out of 5 pilots just because they are a known quantity to someone here? YGTBSM. That is nothing but a slap in the face to the pilots who go to work every day and night here and offered their once in a decade green stamp to try to help them.
From an coaching standpoint--we are going to help any and all clients who want our help. That's what a business does, and my team is glad to help. Guess what? Some of the people we've seen come through have struggled, and do not have the experience of previous candidates. We've also seen more rejections--both on the tests and the interview phase. This tells me the interviewers are not getting as much of what they want either. That isn't to say there aren't some great folks hired since March, and I flown with a couple and they were solid aviators.
What I will say, however is I have never met a pilot at FedEx who would knowingly recommend someone that they didn't feel would be a good fit and a good reflection of them--the sponsor. We all have a friend or two we like--but probably wouldn't recommend. When it comes down to trusting the future of your company, and your retirement--pilots get a little protective. I want my daughter to have the option to work here one day--so I dont' recommend anyone I wouldn't want to be her captain on the line. I've always thought our rec policy insured we got pilots who who knew the challenges of working here--but wanted to come anyway. Anyone can read about the payrates--but are you ready to hub turn, carry a thermos out to the 727 (yeah...old days), sleep in the afternoon and wait for deice on a Memphis ice event for the next 20 years? Most of us wouldn't put our name on someone we didn't think would be a good fit...military or civilian.
So--that's the issue. It wasn't anti-military. It wasn't pro-civilian. It was simply that if a FedEx pilot wanted you--HR didn't...at least 4 out of 5 of them. And--since so many military guys were networked in--they were the first to sniff something was "weird" when their sponsorees weren't getting called.
I still like it here. Its a very interesting mix of jets and flying and it pays very well. It is worth the effort to scale these walls. At least for now, however, you might not want to ask for a PE. It appears to be more of a hindrance than a help, which is absolutely jaw-dropping to me. I hope we get this fixed. And if you haven't figured it out--you damn sure better have a plan B, C, and D. When recommendations hurt you, you officially have a screwed up hiring process. After your first Delta profit sharing check you may just decide you lucked out after all...
02-27-2018, 04:50 AM
#129
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 318
Apparently a disgruntled MD-11 pilot found out from a fleet captain the issue--and its not a military issue but a PE issue...
PEs--those once every 10 year hard candy supposed to help your friends--were probably doing the exact opposite. Why? HR decided to play fair and make sure we opened the doors up to non-insiders, so (according the the source--so there may be some distortion here...) it was 80/20 with non PE being the 80% since last March.
So--what did offering your PE do? It basically reduced the chance of your sponsee getting called by a factor of 4.
Now--do I think there needs be a path to bypass sponsorship? Sure. There are some good pilots out there who just don't happen to know anyone here. Should we eliminate 4 out of 5 pilots just because they are a known quantity to someone here? YGTBSM. That is nothing but a slap in the face to the pilots who go to work every day and night here and offered their once in a decade green stamp to try to help them.
From an coaching standpoint--we are going to help any and all clients who want our help. That's what a business does, and my team is glad to help. Guess what? Some of the people we've seen come through have struggled, and do not have the experience of previous candidates. We've also seen more rejections--both on the tests and the interview phase. This tells me the interviewers are not getting as much of what they want either. That isn't to say there aren't some great folks hired since March, and I flown with a couple and they were solid aviators.
What I will say, however is I have never met a pilot at FedEx who would knowingly recommend someone that they didn't feel would be a good fit and a good reflection of them--the sponsor. We all have a friend or two we like--but probably wouldn't recommend. When it comes down to trusting the future of your company, and your retirement--pilots get a little protective. I want my daughter to have the option to work here one day--so I dont' recommend anyone I wouldn't want to be her captain on the line. I've always thought our rec policy insured we got pilots who who knew the challenges of working here--but wanted to come anyway. Anyone can read about the payrates--but are you ready to hub turn, carry a thermos out to the 727 (yeah...old days), sleep in the afternoon and wait for deice on a Memphis ice event for the next 20 years? Most of us wouldn't put our name on someone we didn't think would be a good fit...military or civilian.
So--that's the issue. It wasn't anti-military. It wasn't pro-civilian. It was simply that if a FedEx pilot wanted you--HR didn't...at least 4 out of 5 of them. And--since so many military guys were networked in--they were the first to sniff something was "weird" when their sponsorees weren't getting called.
I still like it here. Its a very interesting mix of jets and flying and it pays very well. It is worth the effort to scale these walls. At least for now, however, you might not want to ask for a PE. It appears to be more of a hindrance than a help, which is absolutely jaw-dropping to me. I hope we get this fixed. And if you haven't figured it out--you damn sure better have a plan B, C, and D. When recommendations hurt you, you officially have a screwed up hiring process. After your first Delta profit sharing check you may just decide you lucked out after all...
PEs--those once every 10 year hard candy supposed to help your friends--were probably doing the exact opposite. Why? HR decided to play fair and make sure we opened the doors up to non-insiders, so (according the the source--so there may be some distortion here...) it was 80/20 with non PE being the 80% since last March.
So--what did offering your PE do? It basically reduced the chance of your sponsee getting called by a factor of 4.
Now--do I think there needs be a path to bypass sponsorship? Sure. There are some good pilots out there who just don't happen to know anyone here. Should we eliminate 4 out of 5 pilots just because they are a known quantity to someone here? YGTBSM. That is nothing but a slap in the face to the pilots who go to work every day and night here and offered their once in a decade green stamp to try to help them.
From an coaching standpoint--we are going to help any and all clients who want our help. That's what a business does, and my team is glad to help. Guess what? Some of the people we've seen come through have struggled, and do not have the experience of previous candidates. We've also seen more rejections--both on the tests and the interview phase. This tells me the interviewers are not getting as much of what they want either. That isn't to say there aren't some great folks hired since March, and I flown with a couple and they were solid aviators.
What I will say, however is I have never met a pilot at FedEx who would knowingly recommend someone that they didn't feel would be a good fit and a good reflection of them--the sponsor. We all have a friend or two we like--but probably wouldn't recommend. When it comes down to trusting the future of your company, and your retirement--pilots get a little protective. I want my daughter to have the option to work here one day--so I dont' recommend anyone I wouldn't want to be her captain on the line. I've always thought our rec policy insured we got pilots who who knew the challenges of working here--but wanted to come anyway. Anyone can read about the payrates--but are you ready to hub turn, carry a thermos out to the 727 (yeah...old days), sleep in the afternoon and wait for deice on a Memphis ice event for the next 20 years? Most of us wouldn't put our name on someone we didn't think would be a good fit...military or civilian.
So--that's the issue. It wasn't anti-military. It wasn't pro-civilian. It was simply that if a FedEx pilot wanted you--HR didn't...at least 4 out of 5 of them. And--since so many military guys were networked in--they were the first to sniff something was "weird" when their sponsorees weren't getting called.
I still like it here. Its a very interesting mix of jets and flying and it pays very well. It is worth the effort to scale these walls. At least for now, however, you might not want to ask for a PE. It appears to be more of a hindrance than a help, which is absolutely jaw-dropping to me. I hope we get this fixed. And if you haven't figured it out--you damn sure better have a plan B, C, and D. When recommendations hurt you, you officially have a screwed up hiring process. After your first Delta profit sharing check you may just decide you lucked out after all...
02-27-2018, 05:18 AM
#130
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 318
PEs - the 20% solution
Word on the Street, the team of LAWYERS in charge of hiring have been interviewing 20% of the people with PEs, and 80% with ZERO PEs. The last class of new hires had only one guy with a PE. So that 20% could be optomistic.
Here's a novel concept, Let's interview the "Most Qualified" candidates. Let's put Pilots back in charge of picking winners and losers. Let's have the lawyers do lawyer sh-t, and the pilots do pilot sh-t.
Scratch that, that's all those guys with PE's from guys who knew them in a previous life. They are the guys you would actually want to fly with and be stuck with on a 10 trip around the world. More importantly, those are the guys you want in your cockpit when Sh-t hits the fan.
PS - "Guys" is a Gender Neutral Term, I'd hate to offend anyone
Here's a novel concept, Let's interview the "Most Qualified" candidates. Let's put Pilots back in charge of picking winners and losers. Let's have the lawyers do lawyer sh-t, and the pilots do pilot sh-t.
Scratch that, that's all those guys with PE's from guys who knew them in a previous life. They are the guys you would actually want to fly with and be stuck with on a 10 trip around the world. More importantly, those are the guys you want in your cockpit when Sh-t hits the fan.
PS - "Guys" is a Gender Neutral Term, I'd hate to offend anyone
Last edited by JollyF15; 02-27-2018 at 05:32 AM.
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