TonyC

Whoa, whoa, WHOA!

We don't need to start down that road, and that is EXACTLY why we should NEVER split different parts of our group onto separate, "specialized" plans. Only works great until the next round of negotiations when each separate group is motivated to improve its own specialized plan, even if it's at the expense of any other specialized plans. The Company then gets to laugh while we fight each other instead of being unified to fight the only other party in the negotiations, The Company.


Now that I've gotten that out, let me go back and comment on the details I skipped over.

B plan funds only matter if they have TIME to grow, which the senior bubbas don't have. (I think you meant OLD bubbas, which aren't always the same.) If anything, the closer one gets to retirement, whether by choice or by regulation, the more he wants to improve the Defined Benefit plan.



Armed with accurate information, we all need to come together to fight for whatever is best for all of us over the long run. Maybe we could act like a union, even.







.

MelT

Here is something guys who want to get rid of the A plan for a bigger B plan should consider: when you are out on disability you earn no B fund, and unless you have another income source you have no avenue to defer income for retirement other than straight saving. With the A fund your are at least earning years of service to increase your multiplier to at least make the most out of whatever your high 5 happens to be.

The balanced approach for ALL pilots is the best way to go.

fly4unclesam

The comments have pretty much confirmed what I assumed. For a guy starting out with only about 20 years left to give to an airline, the pension is hard to beat. Sure, it does not contain a cost of living adjustment but the value is still significant (for now) and would require a significant amount of B Fund contribution to provide the same monthly allotment for life (and the pilot assumes all the B Fund investment market risk). Then, when you add on the fact that FDX also provides a B Fund (even if not as lucrative as the pax carriers) and the excess sick bank contributions that were mentioned, it seems like FDX still has the best retirement. Plus, as was mentioned, it is a balanced approach...not all your eggs in one basket.

I appreciate the info guys.

pinseeker

I'd say even if you could put in 25 years at an airline, the pension is hard to beat. At 25 years and the current pay scale and IRS limits, the B plan would have to be somewhere in the 25% to 30% range just to match what we have now.

SaltyDog

FedEx Pilots achieved their Defined Benefit Plan (aka "A" or DBP Plan sooner than UPS Pilots. Higher starting costs for UPS drove the method that the IPA used to achieve highest overall DBP payment to retiree in shortest time possible. Both FedEx and UPS have solid plans. Certainly we all desire more, who doesn't. IPA pilots in 2006 achieved a more Chapter 13 proof funding of their DBP plans making them more secure from being eliminated.
IMHO, folks think a union can sell or close out a DBP plan. Unions could negotiate and freeze the members DBP at a certain point, but simply means you would effectively lock your DBP at that point and not accrue more DBP (If had 10 years in a 20 year career, locked at the current payout for the 10 year mark when retire later)
On a positive note, neither FedEx Alpa or IPA allowed any freeze (no more longevity etc) in the latest CBA's ratified by their pilots. I think both pilot groups will see a positive vector on the next ratified CBA regarding DBP.
To the original poster:
Profit sharing is a superb benefit, but extraordinarily unusual for pax carriers to be profitable over a full career. FedEx and UPS pilots enjoy a negotiated "profit sharing" plan in the DBP

BoilerUP

Salty,

My comment was meant more to be an objective evaluation than an indictment of one or promotion of another.

Regardless of who one works for, we're all pilots - we all want "more". Reality of the bargaining environment is a wee bit more complicated than interwebs chatter and crew room lawyering...but I'm pretty sure you are well aware of that.

KC10 FATboy

I agree with you. FDX and UPS have two different retirement streams which brings stability. However, the higher contributions at the Big 3 are not chump change. With smart conservative investing, you won't be poor when you retire. If the Big 3 allow profit sharing to be dumped into the 401K, that would be outstanding.

Right now it is a good time to be an airline pilot. But there's risk no matter which path you choose. DAL seems to be leading the way in code sharing away lucrative wide body positions. Cargo might see the first phase of single pilot/drone airplanes. Who knows what will happen?

Regardless of which path you choose, live beneath your means, get out of debt as quick as you can, pay off your home, put at least six months of cash in the bank as an emergency fund, and invest your money. Once your house is paid for and you only have to provide food, utilities and taxes, the stress level is greatly reduced and you can easily make it through any downturns or job issues.

If you can make it to the "pinnacle"' where the interest off your investments make more each year than your current salary, then congrats you've won.

WhiskeyDelta

Delta not only allows us to contribute all of our profit sharing into our 401ks up the limits, they also add the 16% DC on top of it.

Nightflyer

Does Delta give you cash over cap?

That is where our NC failed us, IMHO.

Well, one of many items.

UnusualAttitude

Yes, DL gives cash over cap.