What's the Latest at ASA/Expressjet?
06-17-2015, 09:11 AM
#9761
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2006
Position: Reclined seat
Posts: 629
06-17-2015, 09:35 AM
#9762
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Position: I can fly.....I'm a pilot
Posts: 442
Here's why it would be a sell out for ME. If you ready my original post, you will see that I said MY choices are... Since I can't speak for others personal beliefs or situations, I of course can't judge others decisions.
To give up 3 weeks vacation, line holder, holidays and weekends off, good QOL, relatively good contract (compared to other regionals), about 400 or more people junior to me; all for precious PIC time (which we know is not as important as it once was), would be a sell out for ME because: I'd have no seniority, no weekends off, no holidays off, no sick time, no vacation time until next year and then only have a week or so, I'm fully vested in my 401k, I'd be on reserve, worse contracts, working at another regional again, contribute to the whipsaw against my own fellow pilots, and the possibility of these airlines not being able to staff all the growth they are taking on and it all blowing up in their faces and royally screwing me over. All for marginally better pay (first year captain pay on reserve assuming PSA street captain, vs 90 hour top of the pay scale here), and some PIC time, for ME is not worth it and a sell out.
So if you don't think that is a sell out, then what would you call it? If it's in someone else's best interest to do that, then go for it. You have to do what's best for you. I don't blame the junior FOs who go elsewhere or anyone who thinks it's in their best interest to leave for another regional. I have even seriously contemplated it. But after taking a few extra seconds to evaluate it, it all became clear to me.
I hope that clears it up for you. If my post still offends you, then that is your problem. I stand by what I said. If you don't like it, then too bad for you.
To give up 3 weeks vacation, line holder, holidays and weekends off, good QOL, relatively good contract (compared to other regionals), about 400 or more people junior to me; all for precious PIC time (which we know is not as important as it once was), would be a sell out for ME because: I'd have no seniority, no weekends off, no holidays off, no sick time, no vacation time until next year and then only have a week or so, I'm fully vested in my 401k, I'd be on reserve, worse contracts, working at another regional again, contribute to the whipsaw against my own fellow pilots, and the possibility of these airlines not being able to staff all the growth they are taking on and it all blowing up in their faces and royally screwing me over. All for marginally better pay (first year captain pay on reserve assuming PSA street captain, vs 90 hour top of the pay scale here), and some PIC time, for ME is not worth it and a sell out.
So if you don't think that is a sell out, then what would you call it? If it's in someone else's best interest to do that, then go for it. You have to do what's best for you. I don't blame the junior FOs who go elsewhere or anyone who thinks it's in their best interest to leave for another regional. I have even seriously contemplated it. But after taking a few extra seconds to evaluate it, it all became clear to me.
I hope that clears it up for you. If my post still offends you, then that is your problem. I stand by what I said. If you don't like it, then too bad for you.
06-17-2015, 11:29 AM
#9764
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,223
Here's why it would be a sell out for ME. If you ready my original post, you will see that I said MY choices are... Since I can't speak for others personal beliefs or situations, I of course can't judge others decisions.
To give up 3 weeks vacation, line holder, holidays and weekends off, good QOL, relatively good contract (compared to other regionals), about 400 or more people junior to me; all for precious PIC time (which we know is not as important as it once was), would be a sell out for ME because: I'd have no seniority, no weekends off, no holidays off, no sick time, no vacation time until next year and then only have a week or so, I'm fully vested in my 401k, I'd be on reserve, worse contracts, working at another regional again, contribute to the whipsaw against my own fellow pilots, and the possibility of these airlines not being able to staff all the growth they are taking on and it all blowing up in their faces and royally screwing me over. All for marginally better pay (first year captain pay on reserve assuming PSA street captain, vs 90 hour top of the pay scale here), and some PIC time, for ME is not worth it and a sell out.
So if you don't think that is a sell out, then what would you call it? If it's in someone else's best interest to do that, then go for it. You have to do what's best for you. I don't blame the junior FOs who go elsewhere or anyone who thinks it's in their best interest to leave for another regional. I have even seriously contemplated it. But after taking a few extra seconds to evaluate it, it all became clear to me.
I hope that clears it up for you. If my post still offends you, then that is your problem. I stand by what I said. If you don't like it, then too bad for you.
To give up 3 weeks vacation, line holder, holidays and weekends off, good QOL, relatively good contract (compared to other regionals), about 400 or more people junior to me; all for precious PIC time (which we know is not as important as it once was), would be a sell out for ME because: I'd have no seniority, no weekends off, no holidays off, no sick time, no vacation time until next year and then only have a week or so, I'm fully vested in my 401k, I'd be on reserve, worse contracts, working at another regional again, contribute to the whipsaw against my own fellow pilots, and the possibility of these airlines not being able to staff all the growth they are taking on and it all blowing up in their faces and royally screwing me over. All for marginally better pay (first year captain pay on reserve assuming PSA street captain, vs 90 hour top of the pay scale here), and some PIC time, for ME is not worth it and a sell out.
So if you don't think that is a sell out, then what would you call it? If it's in someone else's best interest to do that, then go for it. You have to do what's best for you. I don't blame the junior FOs who go elsewhere or anyone who thinks it's in their best interest to leave for another regional. I have even seriously contemplated it. But after taking a few extra seconds to evaluate it, it all became clear to me.
I hope that clears it up for you. If my post still offends you, then that is your problem. I stand by what I said. If you don't like it, then too bad for you.
Vacation, pay, even 401k contributions are secondary to getting out of commuter hell.
I made a mistake going to a place with a longer upgrade. I spent at least 4 years longer at the commuters than I should have, all for similar reasons.
It was a mistake.
The job as a whole at the major level is significantly better when you aren't being whipsawed around. You can plan your life. Little fear of opening and closing domiciles on a whim. It's so much better.
Don't let yourself get to this point. Don't let yourself rationalize not improving your resume because of a couple bucks into a 401k. It's not worth spending 25% or more of your career at the commuter level, every year you hang out at the commuters you're losing at least $100,000 in lifetime earnings, assuming you're a Captain now. Even more if you are an FO making $40k.
06-17-2015, 11:55 AM
#9765
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: CRJ CA
Posts: 328
Commuters???? Really? 1980 called........
06-17-2015, 01:44 PM
#9766
Not A Janitor
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Posts: 814
For the FO's reading this, don't let this be you.
Vacation, pay, even 401k contributions are secondary to getting out of commuter hell.
I made a mistake going to a place with a longer upgrade. I spent at least 4 years longer at the commuters than I should have, all for similar reasons.
It was a mistake.
The job as a whole at the major level is significantly better when you aren't being whipsawed around. You can plan your life. Little fear of opening and closing domiciles on a whim. It's so much better.
Don't let yourself get to this point. Don't let yourself rationalize not improving your resume because of a couple bucks into a 401k. It's not worth spending 25% or more of your career at the commuter level, every year you hang out at the commuters you're losing at least $100,000 in lifetime earnings, assuming you're a Captain now. Even more if you are an FO making $40k.
Vacation, pay, even 401k contributions are secondary to getting out of commuter hell.
I made a mistake going to a place with a longer upgrade. I spent at least 4 years longer at the commuters than I should have, all for similar reasons.
It was a mistake.
The job as a whole at the major level is significantly better when you aren't being whipsawed around. You can plan your life. Little fear of opening and closing domiciles on a whim. It's so much better.
Don't let yourself get to this point. Don't let yourself rationalize not improving your resume because of a couple bucks into a 401k. It's not worth spending 25% or more of your career at the commuter level, every year you hang out at the commuters you're losing at least $100,000 in lifetime earnings, assuming you're a Captain now. Even more if you are an FO making $40k.
06-17-2015, 01:45 PM
#9767
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Posts: 218
For the FO's reading this, don't let this be you.
Vacation, pay, even 401k contributions are secondary to getting out of commuter hell.
I made a mistake going to a place with a longer upgrade. I spent at least 4 years longer at the commuters than I should have, all for similar reasons.
It was a mistake.
The job as a whole at the major level is significantly better when you aren't being whipsawed around. You can plan your life. Little fear of opening and closing domiciles on a whim. It's so much better.
Don't let yourself get to this point. Don't let yourself rationalize not improving your resume because of a couple bucks into a 401k. It's not worth spending 25% or more of your career at the commuter level, every year you hang out at the commuters you're losing at least $100,000 in lifetime earnings, assuming you're a Captain now. Even more if you are an FO making $40k.
Vacation, pay, even 401k contributions are secondary to getting out of commuter hell.
I made a mistake going to a place with a longer upgrade. I spent at least 4 years longer at the commuters than I should have, all for similar reasons.
It was a mistake.
The job as a whole at the major level is significantly better when you aren't being whipsawed around. You can plan your life. Little fear of opening and closing domiciles on a whim. It's so much better.
Don't let yourself get to this point. Don't let yourself rationalize not improving your resume because of a couple bucks into a 401k. It's not worth spending 25% or more of your career at the commuter level, every year you hang out at the commuters you're losing at least $100,000 in lifetime earnings, assuming you're a Captain now. Even more if you are an FO making $40k.
Staying at Expressjet/ASA has cost me $200,000+ in career earnings so far :-( (this assumes the conservative estimate the average regional pilot spends 6 years in the right seat at the commuter level.)
And with this being year 8, and no upgrade in sight, looks like I'll continue to "cash in" as a commuter FO for many months (years?) to come here at ASA.
FML.
06-17-2015, 02:23 PM
#9768
CA
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: I am the Captain now...
Posts: 1,006
Didn't that gate agent in DEN say we're getting bought by UA? Heck- then we'll all be mainline! 
06-17-2015, 02:25 PM
#9769
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: CRJ
Posts: 419
For the FO's reading this, don't let this be you.
Vacation, pay, even 401k contributions are secondary to getting out of commuter hell.
I made a mistake going to a place with a longer upgrade. I spent at least 4 years longer at the commuters than I should have, all for similar reasons.
It was a mistake.
The job as a whole at the major level is significantly better when you aren't being whipsawed around. You can plan your life. Little fear of opening and closing domiciles on a whim. It's so much better.
Don't let yourself get to this point. Don't let yourself rationalize not improving your resume because of a couple bucks into a 401k. It's not worth spending 25% or more of your career at the commuter level, every year you hang out at the commuters you're losing at least $100,000 in lifetime earnings, assuming you're a Captain now. Even more if you are an FO making $40k.
Vacation, pay, even 401k contributions are secondary to getting out of commuter hell.
I made a mistake going to a place with a longer upgrade. I spent at least 4 years longer at the commuters than I should have, all for similar reasons.
It was a mistake.
The job as a whole at the major level is significantly better when you aren't being whipsawed around. You can plan your life. Little fear of opening and closing domiciles on a whim. It's so much better.
Don't let yourself get to this point. Don't let yourself rationalize not improving your resume because of a couple bucks into a 401k. It's not worth spending 25% or more of your career at the commuter level, every year you hang out at the commuters you're losing at least $100,000 in lifetime earnings, assuming you're a Captain now. Even more if you are an FO making $40k.
If you're new at Expressjet, or thinking of coming here, I'd advise against it. A senior FOs problems, and my personal problems, are totally different then a junior FOs problems. It's comparing apples and oranges. Stuck on reserve or holding a line with weekends off is a totally different scenario. Maybe it's easy for a single, 20 something to make lateral moves, but it's not so easy for others. What are you gonna do while on abysmal training pay for three months or longer? What if it back fires on you and your stuck as an FO somewhere with a worse contract and tops out at $39 an hour vs $47 an hour and no one, or very few behind you?
Not to say PIC time is not extremely valuable. However, we probably all know FOs who have left for mainline or LCCs. Not lateral moves. So is it worth giving up your QOL (if you have it) to chase that PIC? Will it really give you a leg up when there are thousands of captains with thousands of PIC time that you will never catch? We have all seen the retirement numbers. Everyone's chance will come soon. PIC or not.
Those airlines offering quick upgrades are on a very slippery slope. With some getting 50 or more airplanes over the next year, it's a huge gamble that they will be able to staff. Remember, the original question was in regards to lateral moves and the considerations you would need to make. Someone who is junior or new, is not the same thing as a senior pilots problem. Will giving up QOL for PIC time really be worth it in the next year or so? I guess time will tell who was right and who was wrong.
06-17-2015, 02:35 PM
#9770
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: CRJ
Posts: 419
Also good for thought, then I have to go be a human. BS talks to the management types and higher ups at the majors because of his job. He told me personally that those guys have told him on multiple occasions that they would rather higher a high time 7 year FO vs a low time pilot with PIC time.
That's just what the man told me. I'd take it with a grain of salt. It seems better to separate yourself from the pack and network, then to chase upgrades. But hey, that's just my opinion.
That's just what the man told me. I'd take it with a grain of salt. It seems better to separate yourself from the pack and network, then to chase upgrades. But hey, that's just my opinion.
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