IrishNJ

I agree with you there, as I believe do many xjt guys.

I don't really get why there's so much anti-xjt attitude here. It seems to me the l-xjt guys have been really conciliatory so far. L-xjt is by far the majority and yet somehow are the ones making the concessions by looking at a PBS system in spite of what everyone wants.

All ASA has done is force everyone to waste a ton of money on arbitration ... and fail.

Whiplash6

The company is not going to allow line bidding in the next contract. PBS is a definite. I think the ASA side has only been advising taking a proven PBS in Flightline over the untested, unused, undesired, dead on arrival PBS that is "smartpref". Why you knuckleheads keep demanding a new PBS and then wondering why ASA is forcing arbitration is beyond me. But, by all means, let's continue the beat-up, old PBS discussion. Its been so beneficial to this thread thus far.

404yxl

As a pilot sitting on the outside looking in, I find it funny when some at ASA make comments like this. The XJT pilots have far superior vacation rules with their current line bidding. It looks like they understand the meaning of negotiation leverage that you do not. I'm all for them looking at all PBS options. It's a little entertaining listening to the constant whining I hear from the ASA side. Pretty funny honestly.

I guess you have missed the state of this industry and the massive leverage regional pilots have with the ATP minimums and hiring at the Majors. It would be a good idea to stop looking out for your loving owners at Inc and towards yourself with how much value you actually contribute to the mainline airlines who you actually work for.

Truman_Sparks

[QUOTE=404yxl;1827297]As a pilot sitting on the outside looking in, I find it funny when some at ASA make comments like this. The XJT pilots have far superior vacation rules with their current line bidding.

No they don't. You obviously don't understand LASA's vacation rules.

CL65driver

Actually, most of the pilots whom I've spoken with that use Smartpref in the secondary tell me they love it. Now, how much is Atlanta willing to give me to vote in PBS is the real question...

PeezDog

Haha leverage. That's funny. If you don't work here, why do u care?

Nevets

I would LOVE to see a contract with one set of rules (even flight line if that's what it took), by taking the best of both contracts and therefore no one taking a concession. That would truly benefit everyone. But it is flat out wrong to think it benefits everyone if 2/3 of the pilots are taking a concession to have one set of work rules. So I agree that we can agree to disagree.

One other thing, I advice everyone not to put all your eggs in the xjt basket. ESPECIALLY if you have kids! I know for me personally, I won't end up homeless or destitute if this place went under tomorrow. I also don't want to seen anyone lose their job but I can't carry that weight on my shoulders when voting no to concessions. Everyone must have personal responsibility for themselves. No one is owed a job in this society and therefore should always plan for the worst. Anyone that doesn't is playing with fire.



No, the ASA MEC made a deal and tried or are still trying to weasel out of it. They made this deal knowing that smartpref was untested, unproven, etc (which is no longer true). We didn't demand anything! The ASA MEC made a MUTUAL agreement with the XJT MEC and management. No one forced anybody to sign the PBS protocol agreement. So go ahead and try to rewrite history with your PBS discussion but it's certainly not helping the thread.



We do have leverage. How much is yet to be seen. But the fact that management is no longer looking for concessions, they are paying for ATPs, handing out bonuses, giving employment leaves of absences, handing out EFBs with no cost to the pilot (unlike the failed TA), giving moving benefits to pilots that contractually are not supposed to get them, etc is proof that we do have some leverage. Is it enough for best of both contracts TA? I don't know, but I certainly don't want to take ANY concessions on ANY part of my contract if we don't just to finish the merger. But that's because I have leverage by having a plan B. If everyone did, this industry would be vastly different.

PeezDog

I can finally agree with you Nevets. I hope to see something for us to vote on soon. I don't like the grandfather idea, but I will entertain it. If its the best we can do, I guess its better then nothing. Because I think if we turn down the next offer, that's what we'll have. Nothing.

I wish we had more leverage to get us a better deal, but we just don't. With other pilot groups taking concessions, mainline passing us up over and over again for flying to the cheaper, more "stable" regionals, pilots leaving to go to the growing regionals and the majors, no one showing up to class, and Skywest having all the planes and growing while we shrink, we have nothing to bargain with. Let's get it done then and start rebuilding. In the meantime, try to GTFO!

Maybe the new hires have leverage. Signing bonuses and such. EFBs were being worked years ago. And you have to pay for it when you leave. Plus it also helps the company. Maybe we get a retention bonus. These are all little things that are intended to be temporary. So when they get what they want, they can bend us over again. If they really valued us, they would have gotten us a contract already that was tops in the industry. Stagnant pilots at a shrinking regional have almost zero leverage.

404yxl

The XJT vacation rules allow them to get far more days off than the ASA pilots. You aren't the first ASA pilot I've talked to that thinks their system is better than the XJT pilot's. Fact is the XJT pilots have huge leverage with their vacation rules and line bidding. It beats out most mainline groups using PBS as well.

If you really don't understand the leverage regional pilots hold, you can join all those other groups voting in concessions for pointless reasons. Good luck replacing the ASA and XJT pilot groups with any pilots other than ASA and XJT pilots.

gojo

Man, where the H$ll have you been lately??? Comair and Eagle thought the very same thing. We are contract lift, that's it. And the legacy's will choose the cheapest contract carrier for the same reasons people shop at Walmart. The 50 seat fleet will be reduced by 2/3 due to scope with the legacy's. So where exactly is all this leverage you speak of?