JoeMerchant

United has a Gen. Lee too....Who knew?

Hillbilly

Easy there. No need to be confrontational. I only posted because the information didn't seem accurate. I am glad you like my screen name. You posted this:

With regards to the 717 info you wrote, it is clearly implying that the items you listed are unexpected things that have occurred that have changed the outlook on the 717 program from the initial expectations. I would go so far as to say it implies that these things have caused the costs associated with the 717 to be higher than expected and thus "the program isn't going to well".

The statement that the pilot positions went senior doesn't make any sense when applied as an effect on the cost of the program. It's irrelevant. Many of the First Officer positions on the 717 are filled with newhires and those who are at or near the bottom of our seniority list. Some senior FOs, but not a ton, just like with every category we have. No shocker there. When it comes to Captains, I will agree that the very first bid went more senior than would normally have occurred, but there was a very specific reason for it and ultimately it is irrelevant.

The reason the first bid for the 717 (April 2013) went senior is that the company advertised prior to the bid that the pilots would be trained ASAP on the aircraft in order to be ready for the first deliveries months later (originally projected for late August 2013 IIRC). They needed to keep the training pipeline full to be able to staff the category for the anticipated pace of deliveries. Since the aircraft were not coming for many months after the bid, everyone knew going in that you would train early and then sit for the entire summer getting paid to do nothing while waiting for the first airplanes to show up so you could do OE. You couple that with the knowledge that every trip initially was going to be used for OE, so even after you completed your OE, most of your trips were going to get bought for OEs for other pilots by line check airmen and you would further get paid to stay home. It wasn't rocket science to realize that several senior pilots jumped all over a summer paid vacation. When the delivery of the first aircraft were further delayed, this just made it an even better deal. Now, how much extra did it cost the company for these Captain positions to be filled by more senior pilots? $0. The most junior Captain systemwide (he's NYC based on the MD88) has been with the company over 14 years. The Delta payscale tops out after 12 years. Every Captain at the company is top of scale. The wage cost is no different for that position if it were filled with a 12 year pilot or a 25 year pilot. There was never any expectation or planning made which depended on pilots not at top of scale getting the Captain positions. Thus implying that because it went senior (which it only did on that first bid, now it's running about the same as the MD88/90) it cost more and is part of a reason why the 717 program isn't doing well is not accurate.

I apologize if you were offended by me posting on this board. I happened to see a statement that was presented as fact that I believed was not accurate and so I stated that. It wasn't meant as a dig at you personally nor an attack. I truly wish the pilots at Expressjet nothing but the best and hope that many continue to join our ranks at Delta.

Jefferson

Hillbilly,
Your civil, adult, and cohesive response only serves to bring further into question the unfortunate genetics affecting Lambourne's manhood. Please stop.

lear700pilot

It is nice to see there are professional people on these forums that can post positive and polite responses with good information. I personally appreciate the way you presented your view. Thanks!

Paid2fly

"The mainline jets were full".

Funny, I remember when there were lots of empty seats on lots of planes and you could actually easily non-rev pretty much anywhere, anytime with your whole family... Not so much these days!

8ballfreight

While I wholly agree that nobody is owed a job, the reality is that these pilots -who are not screened enough- are already flying united customers in to many of the same airports.
If you don't want to hire an ug-o, fine, but the vast majority objectively pass the smell test. Years of moving United pax without a blemish to me seems to reveal more about a person than a day or two with HR.
But hell with it all.

RgrMurdock

This is what I don't understand. All of these misfits with 3+ DUIs and checkride busts are flying your passengers. Where's the sense of condemnation? Good enough to fly 50 passengers but not over a threshold of 100+ passengers. Where is the line in the sand?

Speedbird2263

Just an observation, however we often fly north of 300 passengers in a day when you consider the amount of legs x capacity. On the 50 seater with up to 6 legs a day that equates to 300 pax and on the 76 seater on a 5 leg day that's up to 380 pax( incidentally the capacity of a DL/UA 747-400).

-2263

Lambourne

The HR departments run the legacy carriers. They demand to screen and filter. If you read the UA hiring forums you will see they are looking for well rounded individuals that have a sense of community and integrity. We have enough malcontents already, they don't want add any additional potential unscreened bad apples.

UA codeshares via the Star with many carriers such as LH, ANA, Air Canada, etc. The LH 380 and 748 carry a lot of people that bought UA tickets also. Also UA carries LH and ANA customers. We don't offer to exchange jobs with pilots from those carriers so why would we do that with UAX?

The only way UA would have a flow would be if HR can screen the pilots first.

Speedbird2263

I understand to an extent your argument however, IMO your example using LH, ANA etc. carriers is a bit off, seeing as they are foreign carriers and the job security gleaned from a cradle to grave "interview/flow" would benefit American Jobs. In a lot of cases also ALPA jobs for ALPA Pilots. I fly for a regional carrier and also jumpseat quite a bit on mainline carriers and agree that there are bad apples on both sides of the fence and screening is necessary. My argument is that would it not behoove the profession to have this "screening" extended to all in the profession?

Would this not go farther in the way of securing job security and career progression for all pilots? I'm just adding my two cents here fwiw.

-2263