What's the Latest at ASA/Expressjet?
#6111
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Posts: 762
All ALPA contracts are "closed shop". That means you still have to pay dues, even if you're a non member. And its legal under the RLA.
Furthermore, the snipped of the RLA you googled/cut/pasted is totally not applicable to the topic at hand. That means the company can't interfere in union drives and elections. It says nothing about negotiating contract provisions to only hire from ALPA carriers (far fetched, but legal).
Wish I had a buck for all the armchair attorneys out there who think they have all the answers thanks to google.
Furthermore, the snipped of the RLA you googled/cut/pasted is totally not applicable to the topic at hand. That means the company can't interfere in union drives and elections. It says nothing about negotiating contract provisions to only hire from ALPA carriers (far fetched, but legal).
Wish I had a buck for all the armchair attorneys out there who think they have all the answers thanks to google.
Employees shall have the right to organize and bargain collectively through representatives of their own choosing. The majority of any craft or class of employees shall have the right to determine who shall be the representative of the craft or class for the purposes of this chapter. No carrier, its officers, or agents shall deny or in any way question the right of its employees to join, organize, or assist in organizing the labor organization of their choice, and it shall be unlawful for any carrier to interfere in any way with the organization of its employees, or to use the funds of the carrier in maintaining or assisting or contributing to any labor organization, labor representative, or other agency of collective bargaining, or in performing any work therefor, or to influence or coerce employees in an effort to induce them to join or remain or not to join or remain members of any labor organization, or to deduct from the wages of employees any dues, fees, assessments, or other contributions payable to labor organizations, or to collect or to assist in the collection of any such dues, fees, assessments, or other contributions: Provided, That nothing in this chapter shall be construed to prohibit a carrier from permitting an employee, individually, or local representatives of employees from conferring with management during working hours without loss of time, or to prohibit a carrier from furnishing free transportation to its employees while engaged in the business of a labor organization.
No carrier, its officers, or agents shall require any person seeking employment to sign any contract or agreement promising to join or not to join a labor organization; and if any such contract has been enforced prior to the effective date of this chapter, then such carrier shall notify the employees by an appropriate order that such contract has been discarded and is no longer binding on them in any way.
No carrier, its officers, or agents shall require any person seeking employment to sign any contract or agreement promising to join or not to join a labor organization; and if any such contract has been enforced prior to the effective date of this chapter, then such carrier shall notify the employees by an appropriate order that such contract has been discarded and is no longer binding on them in any way.
#6112
Either way, your previous comment that forcing mainline carriers to hire ALPA pilots is "closed shop" is incorrect, even under your spurious definition. No one is being forced to join ALPA, they're just being rewarded for it in ALPA contracts.
No, you don't "have' to be a lawyer to read and interpret contracts, but it helps if you want to interpret them correctly.
And thanks for your "help', but I'm quite well versed in the interpretation and use of the RLA and many labor contracts.
No, you don't "have' to be a lawyer to read and interpret contracts, but it helps if you want to interpret them correctly.
And thanks for your "help', but I'm quite well versed in the interpretation and use of the RLA and many labor contracts.
#6113
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Posts: 762
Either way, your previous comment that forcing mainline carriers to hire ALPA pilots is "closed shop" is incorrect, even under your spurious definition. No one is being forced to join ALPA, they're just being rewarded for it in ALPA contracts.
No, you don't "have' to be a lawyer to read and interpret contracts, but it helps if you want to interpret them correctly.
And thanks for your "help', but I'm quite well versed in the interpretation and use of the RLA and many labor contracts.
No, you don't "have' to be a lawyer to read and interpret contracts, but it helps if you want to interpret them correctly.
And thanks for your "help', but I'm quite well versed in the interpretation and use of the RLA and many labor contracts.
If you have to be a member of ALPA to get hired at an ALPA carrier how are you not being forced to join ALPA? You cannot get the job without joining the union.
Now, I will concede that the original post by Anchor Down said hire from only union carriers and not hire only union members which is two different things because you can work for a union carrier without being a union member.
Last edited by NE_Pilot; 05-26-2014 at 07:12 AM.
#6114
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2012
Posts: 547
I hope your comprehension of Labor law is better than interpreting CT's posts
#6116
That is the very definition of closed shop. You may be "well versed" but you don't know what a closed shop is? Guess my definition of "well versed" is off.
If you have to be a member of ALPA to get hired at an ALPA carrier how are you not being forced to join ALPA? You cannot get the job without joining the union.
Now, I will concede that the original post by Anchor Down said hire from only union carriers and not hire only union members which is two different things because you can work for a union carrier without being a union member.
If you have to be a member of ALPA to get hired at an ALPA carrier how are you not being forced to join ALPA? You cannot get the job without joining the union.
Now, I will concede that the original post by Anchor Down said hire from only union carriers and not hire only union members which is two different things because you can work for a union carrier without being a union member.
You're not being forced to join ALPA, you're being rewarded.
There's plenty of non union carriers a non ALPA pilot can still get hired at.
But really it doesn't matter. This was a "feel good" resolution that has no chance of going anywhere. If you truly had the experience you claim you would know that.
#6117
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Posts: 762
Now I do concede that I assumed that only hiring pilots from union carriers meant hiring only union pilots, and that was the catalyst for this discussion. Hiring only from union carriers is different than hiring only union pilots. However that was stated by Anchor Down, and there is still no proof of this resolution.
#6118
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Posts: 762
Did you actually read what I said?
You're not being forced to join ALPA, you're being rewarded.
There's plenty of non union carriers a non ALPA pilot can still get hired at.
But really it doesn't matter. This was a "feel good" resolution that has no chance of going anywhere. If you truly had the experience you claim you would know that.
You're not being forced to join ALPA, you're being rewarded.
There's plenty of non union carriers a non ALPA pilot can still get hired at.
But really it doesn't matter. This was a "feel good" resolution that has no chance of going anywhere. If you truly had the experience you claim you would know that.
And yes, I agree this resolution carries no weight.
#6119
There will be an ALPA comm on the resolution hopefully in the coming weeks. Otherwise you'll just have to take my word for it. I spoke to the gentleman that actually proposed it.
Captain Tony sees him everyday in the Office.
AnchorDown
Captain Tony sees him everyday in the Office.
AnchorDown
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