Nevets

Economies of scale...did you not see that in my post. Thats the difference between XJT now and all of them then.

Or do you expect any of us to take ANY concession in this new contract?

Here is a list of my own. Mesa, Colgan, TSA, and I could co go but how has being lean on pilot compensation helped them in this marathon?

Economies of scale...

Read my post again and the one above. This is not about bragging. I'll ask again, why not industry leading when that is NOTHING to brag about? You are right, we are not mainline, which is why we are not trying to get mainline industry leading contract. This is about trying to get compensated what we are worth. In the end we will get what we are willing to work for. But that is not to say that we shouldn't get industry leading.

Are YOU willing to take any concession on any part of your contract? Do you expect the LXJT pilots to take any concession on Amy part of their contract? If not, then what would be wrong with taking the best of both contracts, adjust pay rates upward, and call it a day? Because that would be a regional industry leading contract! Three questions there for you.

Truman_Sparks

Excuse me, but doesn't XJET ERJ side already have an industry leading contract in terms of pay, benefits, retirement, scheduling, and QOL? If not, who has better - especially in the 50 seat RJ market? The old ASA side is pretty much next in line in most contract categories, especially after all the bankruptcys, etc? Why all the chest pounding to get an industry leading contract? Your already there. Now, that said, neither side is even remotely suggesting you go backwards in ANY contract category.. The gains you get will probably be smaller than you expect, despite the economy of scale, etc. the whole 20-30% pay increase with full retro isn't going to happen. Going from the best contract to even way higher the best + just probably won't fly.

Reggie Dunlop

The other side of that argument is diminishing marginal return...which unfortunately where the regional segment of the industry finds itself. There are too many widget makers (50 seaters and the pilots that go with them if you will) bumping into each other on the factory floor. It has tipped over the top of the curve and is no longer an efficient means of production from the perspective of those with the capital.

You could grow any subcontractor to infinity and they would only get less efficient and more expensive at this juncture. Behemoth size is not necessarily a strength, and in this particular instance it is not. An increase in cost only furthers to sharpen the curve in the wrong direction from the perspective of labor. It happens over and over yet labor still buys into notion of a very broken pattern bargaining model.

xjtguy

Joe, is that you?

Vertisch

The impression I got from my last conversation with my ALPA rep is the new timeline is "no time soon".

xjtguy

If you read the last JNC blastmail with the update, about 1/3 of the CBA was STILL being negotiated.

I don't think a TA was ever "around the corner".

Bozo

1. There is a great deal of difference between the ones I listed and the airlines you have listed. Look at the management of those airlines and the pilot groups and stack them up against ACA, Air Wis, Comair, ASA and XE.

2. XE has already proven that your former contract, prior to give backs, could not be supported in this market place when you went out on your own. Your former management team screwed you. They gave you everything you wanted because they would always show a profit when you were owned by CAL. That is one of the reason they put you out in the market on your own. That is when your management team actually had to work. Bid for flying like everyone else out there and when they saw their own product could not compete in the market place because cost were too high, well history speaks for itself.

3. I see your stuck on negotiating 101. I am willing to look at any proposal. I am willing to move things around, give in some areas as long as that value is returned in other areas with an increase.

4. Both agreements have good points and bad points. When you say move pay rate upward it depends on what your definition of upward is? How much. For a 50 seat aircraft in this market, a market that shows it's going away, we are close to the max. For ASA it's better to place money in the future where there is room to move upward. If you want more money per hour move towards the larger airframes.

5. Get over this "industry leading contract". Boasting is very over rated.

JustAnotherPLT

What I was told by a local rep was that although 1/3 is still open, only a few items were left to negotiate. Those few items, apparently, are associated with everything that is still open. Who knows, that's what they told me, probably wrong I'm sure. I'm starting to think we will all be long gone before this is ever sorted out. ExpressJet is the new US Airways.

newarkblows

Look at the contracts of AWAC, Horizon, Eagle, Comair, and even the ASA contract and you will see that XJT had an all around decent contract but it was easily trumped by sections from every one of those airlines. They are asking us to go backwards in deadheading, retirement matching, PBS with a completely different scheduling section filled with gray areas and loop holes yet to be discovered, and they are looking for a lower sick bank acrual. I don't care about the hourly pay rate as I do about the work rules. No one is asking for 20-30% increase but a 2-3%+ a yr to keep up with inflation and make the SAME amount in buying power would be nice.

We are not anywhere near the point of diminishing marginal returns. The erj side is planned to be refleeted and you can expect a common fleet across all branches of the company in 10 yrs(skywest, Legacy ASA, and legacy XJT). Even with different fleets we are expected to save 30-40 million a year when we are completely combined. That number will go up if we are all the same fleet.

This is a little different then the overly simple widgets definition from microeconomics. The more jets you operate allows for cheaper pilot and FA training, bulk prices on spare parts, better financing terms, lower management overhead as a % of revenue, and simplified payroll/benefits/HR. Even at the text book point of diminishing returns the costs of entry for a regional to compete are too high. This market favors bigger companies and that has been echoed by numerous financial guys in the industry (boyd, Mann and company, and other analysts.) They predicted 4 massive regional airlines surviving in the next decade. Most agree on Skywest, Republic, and the remaining two are an unknown.

drrhythm2

Which sucks, because on the last conference call I specifically asked what the time frame looked like, and the answer was a very enthusiastic "within a couple of months." That was a couple of months ago.

You have to wonder if the issues really have to do with the new TA's and the change in the industry or if the two sides are just irreparably too far apart in the compensation section. Who knows. I'll just keep dragging my butt up to EWR with no possible end to the commute in sight.