What's the Latest at ASA/Expressjet?
03-24-2014, 11:02 AM
#5431
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,037
BB and Cpt. Tony, while I support you efforts and always have, there are two major obstacles.
1. There is a perceived belief amongst DALPA, Delta pilots, and Delta management that Delta pilots are "the best of the best". Because of this, any single list is DOA.
2. Not withstanding point number 1, any single list would likely only happen with wholly owned carriers who only fly for that carrier. Skywest Inc. and RAH aren't in a position to do this.
Opportunities sometimes present themselves and these windows of opportunity don't always remain open. The window for this opportunity was wide open back in 2000 when the PID was filed. DALPA made it clear at that time that regional pilots aren't the same caliber as Delta pilots. IMO, this was a mistake, and the window of opportunity is now closed.
1. There is a perceived belief amongst DALPA, Delta pilots, and Delta management that Delta pilots are "the best of the best". Because of this, any single list is DOA.
2. Not withstanding point number 1, any single list would likely only happen with wholly owned carriers who only fly for that carrier. Skywest Inc. and RAH aren't in a position to do this.
Opportunities sometimes present themselves and these windows of opportunity don't always remain open. The window for this opportunity was wide open back in 2000 when the PID was filed. DALPA made it clear at that time that regional pilots aren't the same caliber as Delta pilots. IMO, this was a mistake, and the window of opportunity is now closed.
2. Yes, and it should be exclusive to ALPA members by design. If others want to play, then they need to Certify.
... and at the risk of starting a flame fest, there was a difference in the way Delta's selection process worked. The Delta process resulted in a very homogenous group of people who work well together and I would summarize that as professional, putting the mission before their personal desires, and above average smarts (which is true of pilots in general, IMO).
The logo from 80 years ago, in today's terms, would be; Safety, Efficiency, Comfort. Management has been striving to build bridges back to Delta's culture. I would hasten to add that C.E. Woolman did not outsource half of the airline's work. In this employee survey it was pointed out "Outsourcing was not a Delta value."
There have been many good friendships built across merger lines. Really, Delta is a new Company since 2008. This change is for the better. The Company's employees are executing very well. As such Delta is developing a new culture and we're in a bit of a golden age. I see no reason why that culture can not be extended to our brothers flying Delta passengers at the express carriers ... and management is going to have to figure out how to staff DCI, in as much as DCI is 40% of Delta's flying, it is a Delta problem that must be addressed.
As always, I believe the best answer for a union is unity.
03-24-2014, 11:11 AM
#5432
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 4,754
03-24-2014, 12:25 PM
#5433
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Position: Grounded
Posts: 451
1. Delta's "best of the best" attitude has been suppressed to the extent that 2/5th's of the list was "acquired, not hired." Much of the bigotry which resisted unity in 1999 to 2000 had to be put on the back burner to create the hegemony necessary to make Delta + NWA a success.
2. Yes, and it should be exclusive to ALPA members by design. If others want to play, then they need to Certify.
... and at the risk of starting a flame fest, there was a difference in the way Delta's selection process worked. The Delta process resulted in a very homogenous group of people who work well together and I would summarize that as professional, putting the mission before their personal desires, and above average smarts (which is true of pilots in general, IMO).
The logo from 80 years ago, in today's terms, would be; Safety, Efficiency, Comfort. Management has been striving to build bridges back to Delta's culture. I would hasten to add that C.E. Woolman did not outsource half of the airline's work. In this employee survey it was pointed out "Outsourcing was not a Delta value."
There have been many good friendships built across merger lines. Really, Delta is a new Company since 2008. This change is for the better. The Company's employees are executing very well. As such Delta is developing a new culture and we're in a bit of a golden age. I see no reason why that culture can not be extended to our brothers flying Delta passengers at the express carriers ... and management is going to have to figure out how to staff DCI, in as much as DCI is 40% of Delta's flying, it is a Delta problem that must be addressed.
As always, I believe the best answer for a union is unity.
2. Yes, and it should be exclusive to ALPA members by design. If others want to play, then they need to Certify.
... and at the risk of starting a flame fest, there was a difference in the way Delta's selection process worked. The Delta process resulted in a very homogenous group of people who work well together and I would summarize that as professional, putting the mission before their personal desires, and above average smarts (which is true of pilots in general, IMO).
The logo from 80 years ago, in today's terms, would be; Safety, Efficiency, Comfort. Management has been striving to build bridges back to Delta's culture. I would hasten to add that C.E. Woolman did not outsource half of the airline's work. In this employee survey it was pointed out "Outsourcing was not a Delta value."
There have been many good friendships built across merger lines. Really, Delta is a new Company since 2008. This change is for the better. The Company's employees are executing very well. As such Delta is developing a new culture and we're in a bit of a golden age. I see no reason why that culture can not be extended to our brothers flying Delta passengers at the express carriers ... and management is going to have to figure out how to staff DCI, in as much as DCI is 40% of Delta's flying, it is a Delta problem that must be addressed.
As always, I believe the best answer for a union is unity.
03-25-2014, 01:25 PM
#5434
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2014
Posts: 77
So what happens next now that the XJT pilot group voted down the last Agreement? Have talks resumed or is Inc. just telling the XJT pilot group that the sky is falling? What's the next step?
03-25-2014, 03:22 PM
#5435
:-)
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,339
It only takes one regional pilot, ONE, to kill the entire deal.
03-25-2014, 04:35 PM
#5436
Bracing for Fallacies
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: In favor of good things, not in favor of bad things
Posts: 3,543
This is 100% correct, it is a no go because DALPA and National would be sued by regional pilots looking for a windfall. The ONLY way it could work is if the Delta pilots sued the regional pilots, and forced a legal settlement in court of a staple job for the regional pilots. This can not happen as long as both regional and mainlines are represented by ALPA. One of those groups has to leave the association for the profession to be restored.
It only takes one regional pilot, ONE, to kill the entire deal.
It only takes one regional pilot, ONE, to kill the entire deal.
PS. For the second bolded, would there be a way to preempt that from happening? It would be a shame to see a process that would benefit many be held up by a few.
03-25-2014, 04:58 PM
#5437
:-)
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,339
Yes, the Delta pilots would have to leave ALPA, and then sue the regional pilots. The is what APA is doing right now to USAPA. However, it is not clear how successful the APA is going to be because there isn't much of a difference between the two carriers. However, a regional/mainline, would be a home run for mainline.
03-26-2014, 10:50 AM
#5438
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2013
Position: to-go plate at hotel buffet
Posts: 806
Has the wifi ever worked in the DTW crew room?
03-26-2014, 07:03 PM
#5439
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2006
Position: Reclined seat
Posts: 629
03-27-2014, 05:26 AM
#5440
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,037
This is 100% correct, it is a no go because DALPA and National would be sued by regional pilots looking for a windfall. The ONLY way it could work is if the Delta pilots sued the regional pilots, and forced a legal settlement in court of a staple job for the regional pilots. This can not happen as long as both regional and mainlines are represented by ALPA. One of those groups has to leave the association for the profession to be restored.
It only takes one regional pilot, ONE, to kill the entire deal.
It only takes one regional pilot, ONE, to kill the entire deal.
What if proposed as a "take it or leave it" deal, open to a vote?
Merger protocol encourages pilots to reach a consensus on SLI as part of a JPWA.
IMHO it would be better if labor could get it's stuff together and then go to management instead of the current situation where management says "we're merging ... you children figure out who gets what corner of the sandbox."
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