FDX8891

I like how all you guys argue about contracts as if the survival of the company is dependent only on pilot contract and pay. There are so many other variables to consider. How about the cost of management, for one? How much money would SkyWest and XJT collectively save by having one management group? No, we don't talk about that though. We choose to argue about whether or not the small dollar differences in pay and other BS will sink the company like the Titanic.

Wanna know what I think? I think anyone on the labor side of the fence who thinks one of their coworkers is "too expensive" should be shot. That's why this industry has gone nowhere but she sh*tter for the longest time, because we have too many sallies who are willing to bend over and take it time and time again in order to salvage managements cluster you-know-what. This profession will not improve if there are an abundance of people who think like that.

Wanna know what else I think? I think as long as I'm on duty, I should be getting my hourly wage. What an idea - Getting paid for the entire time you're at work. That's what happened when I was working at a local grocery store for 5 years (I did plenty of sitting around there too), while I was doing other side jobs as a CFI, and not to mention it's what a majority of the rest of the world does! But that could never happen at an airline though, because pilots in general are the best at being brainwashed by management's BS. "We can't afford to do that...See, GoJets can get away with that because they make 2 dollars less an hour than you do...blah blah blah." Kiss my a$$!

Part of the reason I came to ExpressJet was because their pay and work rules seemed to be equal to, if not better than the regional industry average. I fully realized when I came here that there's a strong possibility that I could be here for much longer than I expected (we already have enough 6-7 year FOs on property...) so while we're stuck here we need to keep all we can, not give away that we have in an effort to "stay competitive", because there is a chance we could be stuck here for the rest of our careers! Plus, anybody who thinks they are going to be getting anything back from management because they took concessions is a moron.

As far as reaching for the moon - It's what you do during any contract negotiation. Have any of you guys ever seen an episode of Pawn Stars? You go into the negotiation asking much more than what you really want. You fight for it as hard as you can, and then when you get a counter offer that isn't exactly what you asked for (except it's much better than the minimum of what you were going to accept), you shake hands and the deal is done.

Plus, The ERJ guys are ALREADY WORKING UNDER A CONCESSIONARY CONTRACT. Do any of you people really think we're going to sign off on anything that isn't better than what we already have?

End rant...I know I'm just a noob at this 121 thing...haven't even been at the company for a year, probably won't be eligible to vote on the TA, but I know enough about life in general that when I see a bunch of people cowering in fear over whether or not they should fight for QOL improvements in order to save the company it makes me want to absolutely puke. Grow some balls people.

xjtguy

That's a damn fine post.

As far as the bolded part, it's "80 million dollars in synergies" according to the crap they sold to the shareholders, etc when the deal was going through. Amazing how many people have such a short memory on this stuff. NOT talking about you FDX, it's all the other "we have to be cost competitive" or the "where is the money going to come from?" doom and gloom/head in the sand/easily brainwashed/kool aid drinkers.

somertime32

Personally I think SKYW Inc wants a new TA done before they have to report the quarter results. I have a feeling they are going to be back in the black which would make it harder for them to find excuses to short us.

atrdriver

No one is arguing against QOL improvements (have you even been reading these threads? where we say we want our duty rig to be improved to *actual* duty, reserve improvements, etc etc). Just because you and you-know-who (can't satire his name anymore; apparently satire is a form of personal attack around here) say we don't want improvements doesn't make it so. We are just saying that you can't expect your old contract back after you voted yourself some pay cuts "just because."

People ought to be reasonable in their expectations with respect to the breadth of improvements ahead of the vote, and not put their ignorance on display by screaming about how they're going to vote no to anything short of a legacy-quality contract.

afterburn81

I'm not necessarily sticking up for anyone here. Just trying to see it from other perspectives since we ALL have to come to terms in order for this to work. I know a lot of people think that only the MAJORITY have to agree but in order for the company to become successful in the long run it would need to be closer to ALL than the MAJORITY.

Everyone seems to preach that what they like is what everyone else should like. The two pilot groups are very diverse in culture. It's going to take a lot of patience and working together for us to ever get anywhere. Or it will just become another US Air/Americawest deal again. Their situation is not far off. Last time I checked, the culture over there is a bit on the dark side. Not much good going on.

So rather than telling someone to leave out their opinion of something, swallow your pride and try to understand WHY they see it as inferior or "less crappy" as I like to put it. Taking that extra step may be the key one day.

Or not...........

newarkblows

See this is where the mentality of "wait and see" isn't going to fly. The company is actively trying to get concessions out of us. Members of my union are being fairly forthcoming with info especially on sections of the contract where management is asking for concessions. Some of the things I spoke about came from two very good sources. Some of it was said by Jerry Atkin prior to negotiations heating up and some of it came from United management about our positive space deadheads. Our union and the company cannot come to an agreement on deadheading mostly because management does not want to ask for relief from United.

Believe what you want but you are in a fairytale if you think a better QOL will just be placed in your lap and all you have to do is vote.

captain beefy

Isn't that what both sides are paying their negotiators for? Have them hammer out a deal that is best for us and then vote?

I agree with you that the company is trying to pinch everything they can out of us and I sure as heck will not vote on anything with concessions for either side, but as line pilots the only real option we have is a vote at this point.

BelowMins

First of all to be clear I'm on the L-XJT side. The intention of my post was not to dismiss an opinion but rather dismiss a negative opinion that has no offer of a solution. We are seeing too much of this back and forth with no suggestions, only insults or accusastions. I'm saying start becoming part of the solution instead of the problem. (That's not aimed at anyone specific just a general message to both sides)

afterburn81

Fair enough....... Can't argue with that.

Nevets

Like I said, I didn't mean to say that everything in their contract is inferior. There are a couple of things that aren't and the rest is inferior. You know that right?

The solution? Take the best of both contracts.