Envoy
09-30-2018, 08:42 PM
#9831
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2017
Posts: 47
I ask this question to every person I fly with. And have only got this answer twice. The contract says this but everyone else says the 15 minutes after block in. So much so I think scheduling just goes by it. If I wasn’t on probation it’d just screenshot at block in and leave. Especially on go home day.
09-30-2018, 08:47 PM
#9832
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2015
Posts: 687
I ask this question to every person I fly with. And have only got this answer twice. The contract says this but everyone else says the 15 minutes after block in. So much so I think scheduling just goes by it. If I wasn’t on probation it’d just screenshot at block in and leave. Especially on go home day.
09-30-2018, 09:17 PM
#9833
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2017
Posts: 147
I ask this question to every person I fly with. And have only got this answer twice. The contract says this but everyone else says the 15 minutes after block in. So much so I think scheduling just goes by it. If I wasn’t on probation it’d just screenshot at block in and leave. Especially on go home day.
10-01-2018, 12:51 AM
#9834
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2017
Position: Upright
Posts: 396
Wow, just wow, what?
Are you saying that if I am released from a RAP at 1800 on one day, don’t confirm my assignment for the next, that CS can’t call me as early as 0400 the next morning with an assignment or a 0400 RAP?
Don’t I start rest as soon as I duty off, which in this example, would mean I have had a legal rest period by 0400 and could be assigned something other than a rest period?
Isn’t it true that CS CAN, but doesn’t HAVE to call you at midnight with a rest assignment? Where in the contract does it say they SHALL call at midnight and give you rest, and that they can’t just wait until you’ve had a legal rest period to call with an assignment?
I understand what Pedro is saying, I believe.
One thing I did not get exactly clear in my explanation was the union email. That was about pilots who had already been assigned a RAP and were then called by CS and put on rest again to extend legality within a single duty day.
So, tell me if I am wrong here. If you have not confirmed an assignment, yes, CS CAN call at midnight or anytime thereafter to put you on a legal rest period with that first phone call. I understand that is the USUAL practice as Pedro was saying, but is that the contractually required or legal practice?
However, can’t they also just wait until you’ve had legal rest from the end of your last duty period, then call with an assignment instead of a rest period?
If I end a flight assignment at 1000 on day one, have I not had 14 hours of rest by the end of the day midnight, and am now legal for assignment? Isn’t that the risk you take by playing the “not confirming” game? What prevents the company from just giving me an assignment at this point rather than a new rest period?
Are you saying that if I am released from a RAP at 1800 on one day, don’t confirm my assignment for the next, that CS can’t call me as early as 0400 the next morning with an assignment or a 0400 RAP?
Don’t I start rest as soon as I duty off, which in this example, would mean I have had a legal rest period by 0400 and could be assigned something other than a rest period?
Isn’t it true that CS CAN, but doesn’t HAVE to call you at midnight with a rest assignment? Where in the contract does it say they SHALL call at midnight and give you rest, and that they can’t just wait until you’ve had a legal rest period to call with an assignment?
I understand what Pedro is saying, I believe.
One thing I did not get exactly clear in my explanation was the union email. That was about pilots who had already been assigned a RAP and were then called by CS and put on rest again to extend legality within a single duty day.
So, tell me if I am wrong here. If you have not confirmed an assignment, yes, CS CAN call at midnight or anytime thereafter to put you on a legal rest period with that first phone call. I understand that is the USUAL practice as Pedro was saying, but is that the contractually required or legal practice?
However, can’t they also just wait until you’ve had legal rest from the end of your last duty period, then call with an assignment instead of a rest period?
If I end a flight assignment at 1000 on day one, have I not had 14 hours of rest by the end of the day midnight, and am now legal for assignment? Isn’t that the risk you take by playing the “not confirming” game? What prevents the company from just giving me an assignment at this point rather than a new rest period?
Last edited by CrowneVic; 10-01-2018 at 01:21 AM.
10-01-2018, 06:05 AM
#9835
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2015
Posts: 687
Wow, just wow, what?
Are you saying that if I am released from a RAP at 1800 on one day, don’t confirm my assignment for the next, that CS can’t call me as early as 0400 the next morning with an assignment or a 0400 RAP?
Don’t I start rest as soon as I duty off, which in this example, would mean I have had a legal rest period by 0400 and could be assigned something other than a rest period?
Isn’t it true that CS CAN, but doesn’t HAVE to call you at midnight with a rest assignment? Where in the contract does it say they SHALL call at midnight and give you rest, and that they can’t just wait until you’ve had a legal rest period to call with an assignment?
I understand what Pedro is saying, I believe.
One thing I did not get exactly clear in my explanation was the union email. That was about pilots who had already been assigned a RAP and were then called by CS and put on rest again to extend legality within a single duty day.
So, tell me if I am wrong here. If you have not confirmed an assignment, yes, CS CAN call at midnight or anytime thereafter to put you on a legal rest period with that first phone call. I understand that is the USUAL practice as Pedro was saying, but is that the contractually required or legal practice?
However, can’t they also just wait until you’ve had legal rest from the end of your last duty period, then call with an assignment instead of a rest period?
If I end a flight assignment at 1000 on day one, have I not had 14 hours of rest by the end of the day midnight, and am now legal for assignment? Isn’t that the risk you take by playing the “not confirming” game? What prevents the company from just giving me an assignment at this point rather than a new rest period?
Are you saying that if I am released from a RAP at 1800 on one day, don’t confirm my assignment for the next, that CS can’t call me as early as 0400 the next morning with an assignment or a 0400 RAP?
Don’t I start rest as soon as I duty off, which in this example, would mean I have had a legal rest period by 0400 and could be assigned something other than a rest period?
Isn’t it true that CS CAN, but doesn’t HAVE to call you at midnight with a rest assignment? Where in the contract does it say they SHALL call at midnight and give you rest, and that they can’t just wait until you’ve had a legal rest period to call with an assignment?
I understand what Pedro is saying, I believe.
One thing I did not get exactly clear in my explanation was the union email. That was about pilots who had already been assigned a RAP and were then called by CS and put on rest again to extend legality within a single duty day.
So, tell me if I am wrong here. If you have not confirmed an assignment, yes, CS CAN call at midnight or anytime thereafter to put you on a legal rest period with that first phone call. I understand that is the USUAL practice as Pedro was saying, but is that the contractually required or legal practice?
However, can’t they also just wait until you’ve had legal rest from the end of your last duty period, then call with an assignment instead of a rest period?
If I end a flight assignment at 1000 on day one, have I not had 14 hours of rest by the end of the day midnight, and am now legal for assignment? Isn’t that the risk you take by playing the “not confirming” game? What prevents the company from just giving me an assignment at this point rather than a new rest period?
I understand your confusion from the union email now. They were reffering to sched calling someone who was already confirmed for 4 am rap at 4 am and releasing them into 10 hours of rest to complete a sequence they need covered later in the day. Union is concerned because while legal, it is very fatiguing to prepare for a 4 am call and then be given a 9 pm flight.
That doesn't mean if someone is released at 1800 they can be put on 4 am rap without notification though. Still need to be notified, because you could be on 4 am rap, 10 am rap, 2 pm standby, or whatever. That would basically equate to being on call constantly. You won't find reference to midnight in contract because it is pre 117, maybe when they work a new reserve section it will become current with new regs and be clearer.
10-01-2018, 08:00 AM
#9838
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2017
Position: Upright
Posts: 396
10-01-2018, 02:08 PM
#9840
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2014
Posts: 344
Q-73. Can the certificate holder make one phone call to a flightcrew member without interrupting his/her rest?
A-73. The FAA has a “one phone call” policy that “generally” allows a certificate holder to initiate one phone call during a crewmember’s rest period. If the crewmember voluntarily chooses to answer the phone call, the FAA does not view the phone call as disruptive and breaking the rest period. However, if the phone is not answered and multiple calls are made in attempt to get the phone answered or the flightcrew member cannot return to sleep after answering the phone call, then the sleep opportunity may have been interrupted in that circumstance. Thus, a certificate holder runs the risk of interrupting a flightcrew member’s sleep opportunity during the rest period by making a phone call.
A-73. The FAA has a “one phone call” policy that “generally” allows a certificate holder to initiate one phone call during a crewmember’s rest period. If the crewmember voluntarily chooses to answer the phone call, the FAA does not view the phone call as disruptive and breaking the rest period. However, if the phone is not answered and multiple calls are made in attempt to get the phone answered or the flightcrew member cannot return to sleep after answering the phone call, then the sleep opportunity may have been interrupted in that circumstance. Thus, a certificate holder runs the risk of interrupting a flightcrew member’s sleep opportunity during the rest period by making a phone call.
Last edited by RawHide; 10-01-2018 at 02:18 PM.
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