Envoy
06-14-2018, 09:36 PM
#8781
Open Time
Joined APC: Aug 2017
Posts: 182
I am looking at the RTP pipeline and had just a couple of questions regarding the slow down of FO hiring and the timing of new hires right now:
1. Reserve coverage/time at LGA: Does the focus on DECs for training slots and the slow down of FOs result in a longer time on reserve or possible slower movement for new hire FOs since less are coming on than in the past few years?
2. Backlogs in training: Due to my age I will most likely get the 145 in LGA. There is supposedly a pool after completing the time at coast, but once in training is it continuous without significant bubbles between phases? The last post I could find was back in January saying it was pretty efficient and was just looking for the most up to date info.
3. Actually flying as a FO: Some posters are talking about sitting reserve in LGA and not making the 100 hours in 3 months off IOE, is this a typical experience? If willing to use trip trade etc, can this be avoided?
4. Upgrade timing: From what I have heard and read, upgrades are happening right at the 950/1000 mark. Due to the large number of FOs and the new FO development program am I behind the wave where a surge of FOs hired in 2016-17 are about to hit the window and the instant upgrades will begin to slow?
1. Reserve coverage/time at LGA: Does the focus on DECs for training slots and the slow down of FOs result in a longer time on reserve or possible slower movement for new hire FOs since less are coming on than in the past few years?
2. Backlogs in training: Due to my age I will most likely get the 145 in LGA. There is supposedly a pool after completing the time at coast, but once in training is it continuous without significant bubbles between phases? The last post I could find was back in January saying it was pretty efficient and was just looking for the most up to date info.
3. Actually flying as a FO: Some posters are talking about sitting reserve in LGA and not making the 100 hours in 3 months off IOE, is this a typical experience? If willing to use trip trade etc, can this be avoided?
4. Upgrade timing: From what I have heard and read, upgrades are happening right at the 950/1000 mark. Due to the large number of FOs and the new FO development program am I behind the wave where a surge of FOs hired in 2016-17 are about to hit the window and the instant upgrades will begin to slow?
06-15-2018, 01:26 AM
#8782
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,729
06-15-2018, 05:18 AM
#8783
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2016
Posts: 60
This is a slanderous myth against the RTP guys. I'm an RTP hire, and I know several dozen other RTP hires who were in the program while I was building hours last year, and I'm also still involved with the private EnvoyRTP facebook group.
Nobody is "hiding out on orders". I've heard the "friend-of-a-friend" tales in the cockpit of how someone knows-a-guy-who-knows-a-guy that is building seniority without actually working for the company. It's a blatant lie.
Us RTP guys are tight, and we share a lot and know a lot about eachother. I don't know ANYONE who is hiding on orders, in fact... everyone I know who is on orders would much prefer to be working at Envoy and building 121 time. We'd all like to move on to a legacy carrier, and you can't do that without at least 1000 hours of 121/multiFixed (military guys have seen enough failed promises in our lives; we aren't relying on the flow). Now, once the 2-year contract that RTP guys is over, a lot of dudes will put in apps and plan to try and get hired somewhere else with bigger jets and better pay... but are you telling me the rest of you aren't constantly doing the same?
Stop giving RTP bubbas a bad name by accusing us of malingering. If you think being on military orders is such a good deal that RTP guys would rather do it than the cushy airline gig, go join up and stop complaining.
As much as you all complain about airline pilot life at Envoy, the RTP guys are laughing our asses off. This is the easiest job I've ever done, and the money is only getting better. Military flying is a pain in the ass compared to this life, and guys "on orders" for the reserves are not usually doing much flying at all.
06-15-2018, 05:49 AM
#8784
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2010
Position: CFI
Posts: 413
This is a slanderous myth against the RTP guys. I'm an RTP hire, and I know several dozen other RTP hires who were in the program while I was building hours last year, and I'm also still involved with the private EnvoyRTP facebook group.
Nobody is "hiding out on orders". I've heard the "friend-of-a-friend" tales in the cockpit of how someone knows-a-guy-who-knows-a-guy that is building seniority without actually working for the company. It's a blatant lie.
Us RTP guys are tight, and we share a lot and know a lot about eachother. I don't know ANYONE who is hiding on orders, in fact... everyone I know who is on orders would much prefer to be working at Envoy and building 121 time. We'd all like to move on to a legacy carrier, and you can't do that without at least 1000 hours of 121/multiFixed (military guys have seen enough failed promises in our lives; we aren't relying on the flow). Now, once the 2-year contract that RTP guys is over, a lot of dudes will put in apps and plan to try and get hired somewhere else with bigger jets and better pay... but are you telling me the rest of you aren't constantly doing the same?
Stop giving RTP bubbas a bad name by accusing us of malingering. If you think being on military orders is such a good deal that RTP guys would rather do it than the cushy airline gig, go join up and stop complaining.
As much as you all complain about airline pilot life at Envoy, the RTP guys are laughing our asses off. This is the easiest job I've ever done, and the money is only getting better. Military flying is a pain in the ass compared to this life, and guys "on orders" for the reserves are not usually doing much flying at all.
Nobody is "hiding out on orders". I've heard the "friend-of-a-friend" tales in the cockpit of how someone knows-a-guy-who-knows-a-guy that is building seniority without actually working for the company. It's a blatant lie.
Us RTP guys are tight, and we share a lot and know a lot about eachother. I don't know ANYONE who is hiding on orders, in fact... everyone I know who is on orders would much prefer to be working at Envoy and building 121 time. We'd all like to move on to a legacy carrier, and you can't do that without at least 1000 hours of 121/multiFixed (military guys have seen enough failed promises in our lives; we aren't relying on the flow). Now, once the 2-year contract that RTP guys is over, a lot of dudes will put in apps and plan to try and get hired somewhere else with bigger jets and better pay... but are you telling me the rest of you aren't constantly doing the same?
Stop giving RTP bubbas a bad name by accusing us of malingering. If you think being on military orders is such a good deal that RTP guys would rather do it than the cushy airline gig, go join up and stop complaining.
As much as you all complain about airline pilot life at Envoy, the RTP guys are laughing our asses off. This is the easiest job I've ever done, and the money is only getting better. Military flying is a pain in the ass compared to this life, and guys "on orders" for the reserves are not usually doing much flying at all.
........... good lord it gets old. These people need 4 years in enlisted military and get a feel for REALLY getting screwed. There's no end and they care ZERO about you or your preferences.
06-15-2018, 06:03 AM
#8785
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Position: Resigned
Posts: 1,547
Most RTP guys I know are in the pit doing the job, but a substantial minority got a seniority number and dropped orders. I don’t see the need to get bent out of shape over it. If I could go make 4x as much money for 6 mos then come back and hold a line on the 175 in DFW right out of training I’d do it too.
Last edited by NoValueAviator; 06-15-2018 at 06:13 AM.
06-15-2018, 06:30 AM
#8786
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 3,771
This is a slanderous myth against the RTP guys. I'm an RTP hire, and I know several dozen other RTP hires who were in the program while I was building hours last year, and I'm also still involved with the private EnvoyRTP facebook group.
Nobody is "hiding out on orders". I've heard the "friend-of-a-friend" tales in the cockpit of how someone knows-a-guy-who-knows-a-guy that is building seniority without actually working for the company. It's a blatant lie.
Us RTP guys are tight, and we share a lot and know a lot about eachother. I don't know ANYONE who is hiding on orders, in fact... everyone I know who is on orders would much prefer to be working at Envoy and building 121 time. We'd all like to move on to a legacy carrier, and you can't do that without at least 1000 hours of 121/multiFixed (military guys have seen enough failed promises in our lives; we aren't relying on the flow). Now, once the 2-year contract that RTP guys is over, a lot of dudes will put in apps and plan to try and get hired somewhere else with bigger jets and better pay... but are you telling me the rest of you aren't constantly doing the same?
Stop giving RTP bubbas a bad name by accusing us of malingering. If you think being on military orders is such a good deal that RTP guys would rather do it than the cushy airline gig, go join up and stop complaining.
As much as you all complain about airline pilot life at Envoy, the RTP guys are laughing our asses off. This is the easiest job I've ever done, and the money is only getting better. Military flying is a pain in the ass compared to this life, and guys "on orders" for the reserves are not usually doing much flying at all.
Nobody is "hiding out on orders". I've heard the "friend-of-a-friend" tales in the cockpit of how someone knows-a-guy-who-knows-a-guy that is building seniority without actually working for the company. It's a blatant lie.
Us RTP guys are tight, and we share a lot and know a lot about eachother. I don't know ANYONE who is hiding on orders, in fact... everyone I know who is on orders would much prefer to be working at Envoy and building 121 time. We'd all like to move on to a legacy carrier, and you can't do that without at least 1000 hours of 121/multiFixed (military guys have seen enough failed promises in our lives; we aren't relying on the flow). Now, once the 2-year contract that RTP guys is over, a lot of dudes will put in apps and plan to try and get hired somewhere else with bigger jets and better pay... but are you telling me the rest of you aren't constantly doing the same?
Stop giving RTP bubbas a bad name by accusing us of malingering. If you think being on military orders is such a good deal that RTP guys would rather do it than the cushy airline gig, go join up and stop complaining.
As much as you all complain about airline pilot life at Envoy, the RTP guys are laughing our asses off. This is the easiest job I've ever done, and the money is only getting better. Military flying is a pain in the ass compared to this life, and guys "on orders" for the reserves are not usually doing much flying at all.
06-15-2018, 07:17 AM
#8787
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,729
This is a slanderous myth against the RTP guys. I'm an RTP hire, and I know several dozen other RTP hires who were in the program while I was building hours last year, and I'm also still involved with the private EnvoyRTP facebook group.
Nobody is "hiding out on orders". I've heard the "friend-of-a-friend" tales in the cockpit of how someone knows-a-guy-who-knows-a-guy that is building seniority without actually working for the company. It's a blatant lie.
Us RTP guys are tight, and we share a lot and know a lot about eachother. I don't know ANYONE who is hiding on orders, in fact... everyone I know who is on orders would much prefer to be working at Envoy and building 121 time. We'd all like to move on to a legacy carrier, and you can't do that without at least 1000 hours of 121/multiFixed (military guys have seen enough failed promises in our lives; we aren't relying on the flow). Now, once the 2-year contract that RTP guys is over, a lot of dudes will put in apps and plan to try and get hired somewhere else with bigger jets and better pay... but are you telling me the rest of you aren't constantly doing the same?
Stop giving RTP bubbas a bad name by accusing us of malingering. If you think being on military orders is such a good deal that RTP guys would rather do it than the cushy airline gig, go join up and stop complaining.
As much as you all complain about airline pilot life at Envoy, the RTP guys are laughing our asses off. This is the easiest job I've ever done, and the money is only getting better. Military flying is a pain in the ass compared to this life, and guys "on orders" for the reserves are not usually doing much flying at all.
Nobody is "hiding out on orders". I've heard the "friend-of-a-friend" tales in the cockpit of how someone knows-a-guy-who-knows-a-guy that is building seniority without actually working for the company. It's a blatant lie.
Us RTP guys are tight, and we share a lot and know a lot about eachother. I don't know ANYONE who is hiding on orders, in fact... everyone I know who is on orders would much prefer to be working at Envoy and building 121 time. We'd all like to move on to a legacy carrier, and you can't do that without at least 1000 hours of 121/multiFixed (military guys have seen enough failed promises in our lives; we aren't relying on the flow). Now, once the 2-year contract that RTP guys is over, a lot of dudes will put in apps and plan to try and get hired somewhere else with bigger jets and better pay... but are you telling me the rest of you aren't constantly doing the same?
Stop giving RTP bubbas a bad name by accusing us of malingering. If you think being on military orders is such a good deal that RTP guys would rather do it than the cushy airline gig, go join up and stop complaining.
As much as you all complain about airline pilot life at Envoy, the RTP guys are laughing our asses off. This is the easiest job I've ever done, and the money is only getting better. Military flying is a pain in the ass compared to this life, and guys "on orders" for the reserves are not usually doing much flying at all.
It’s no myth there are guys going on orders that had every intention of doing so after Indoc or after IOE. I personally know of three from my Indoc, and still keep in touch with them. If it works for them then great. But you can’t say it doesn’t exist. Probably the minority.
I have no idea how you find that slanderous. I’m simply offering up a potention reason for the RTP being allegedly dropped if that’s the case. It might simply be the outlay is too expensive and their cadet programs are catching up now.
06-15-2018, 09:37 AM
#8789
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2015
Posts: 92
IF this is true, and that's a huge if, it's probably because either:
A, The RTP pilots are for the most part no closer to meeting captain qualifications than non RTP hires and are therefore not really a high priority at the moment
B, The helo pilots who aren't under some sort of commitment to the Army and want to join the RTP program have already joined. At this point, or at some point soon, the stream of RTP pilots will slow to a trickle at which point it will no longer be worth the cost and manpower overhead to continuing the program.
It's mostly associated with the end of summer vacation for kids and college students so it's a gradual drop off that starts in late August and finishes by late September. Generally speaking October 1st through the start of Thanksgiving is when we do the least flying.
A, The RTP pilots are for the most part no closer to meeting captain qualifications than non RTP hires and are therefore not really a high priority at the moment
B, The helo pilots who aren't under some sort of commitment to the Army and want to join the RTP program have already joined. At this point, or at some point soon, the stream of RTP pilots will slow to a trickle at which point it will no longer be worth the cost and manpower overhead to continuing the program.
It's mostly associated with the end of summer vacation for kids and college students so it's a gradual drop off that starts in late August and finishes by late September. Generally speaking October 1st through the start of Thanksgiving is when we do the least flying.
Last edited by KodiakRS; 06-15-2018 at 09:37 AM. Reason: Edit: formatting
06-15-2018, 11:00 AM
#8790
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2016
Posts: 1,609
I am looking at the RTP pipeline and had just a couple of questions regarding the slow down of FO hiring and the timing of new hires right now:
1. Reserve coverage/time at LGA: Does the focus on DECs for training slots and the slow down of FOs result in a longer time on reserve or possible slower movement for new hire FOs since less are coming on than in the past few years?
2. Backlogs in training: Due to my age I will most likely get the 145 in LGA. There is supposedly a pool after completing the time at coast, but once in training is it continuous without significant bubbles between phases? The last post I could find was back in January saying it was pretty efficient and was just looking for the most up to date info.
3. Actually flying as a FO: Some posters are talking about sitting reserve in LGA and not making the 100 hours in 3 months off IOE, is this a typical experience? If willing to use trip trade etc, can this be avoided?
4. Upgrade timing: From what I have heard and read, upgrades are happening right at the 950/1000 mark. Due to the large number of FOs and the new FO development program am I behind the wave where a surge of FOs hired in 2016-17 are about to hit the window and the instant upgrades will begin to slow?
1. Reserve coverage/time at LGA: Does the focus on DECs for training slots and the slow down of FOs result in a longer time on reserve or possible slower movement for new hire FOs since less are coming on than in the past few years?
2. Backlogs in training: Due to my age I will most likely get the 145 in LGA. There is supposedly a pool after completing the time at coast, but once in training is it continuous without significant bubbles between phases? The last post I could find was back in January saying it was pretty efficient and was just looking for the most up to date info.
3. Actually flying as a FO: Some posters are talking about sitting reserve in LGA and not making the 100 hours in 3 months off IOE, is this a typical experience? If willing to use trip trade etc, can this be avoided?
4. Upgrade timing: From what I have heard and read, upgrades are happening right at the 950/1000 mark. Due to the large number of FOs and the new FO development program am I behind the wave where a surge of FOs hired in 2016-17 are about to hit the window and the instant upgrades will begin to slow?
2. No infor for you sorry.
3. Essentially what happened was we hired WAY TOO MANY FOs in the last part of 2017. They are correcting the issue by slowing down hiring and focusing on DEC. Once we start upgrading our pilots at a rate of 30-40 per month then we will be back to normal operations with new hires consolidating.
4. I don't think Envoy will ever get away from the instant upgrades. Once those guys/gals start hitting 950/1000 hours then we will be adding an additional 25 new 175s. So growth plus 35 CA per month attrition is going to be a tall task.
I got no crystal ball here. It can hit the fan at any moment in the next few years. One of the longest bull markets in history will end soonish. The conspiracy side of me says it will end months before the Presidential election in an effort to get rid of Trump. See how easy it is to go from normal to crazy?
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