Envoy
04-29-2018, 07:01 AM
#8132
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2010
Position: CFI
Posts: 413
Like you, I see Envoy as a paid internship. I don't think many people would prefer to stay at Envoy their entire careers. However, denying that it's a possibility the majors won't call you is a little bit arrogant.
There's nothing to be gained by intentionally trying to make this place crappy because you have a plan to get to Boeing nirvana. Maybe the market tanks and you wind up a 20 year regional pilot, or get a spot at an LCC if you're lucky.
There's nothing to be gained by intentionally trying to make this place crappy because you have a plan to get to Boeing nirvana. Maybe the market tanks and you wind up a 20 year regional pilot, or get a spot at an LCC if you're lucky.
I'm a libertarian at heart... Companies can do as they wish... It's up to the employees to walk out if the work rules are unsatisfactory. We have the power
04-29-2018, 07:05 AM
#8133
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2010
Position: CFI
Posts: 413
I know people have lives... I'm one of them. But it's also the companies choice to do as they wish, don't like it then head out the door. People did (like me) and now things are different.
04-29-2018, 07:20 AM
#8134
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2012
Position: E-175 CA
Posts: 339
After 9 years at these so-called “stepping stones,” I’m done with viewing them as such. When you are moving passengers who bought tickets from American Airlines on airplanes that are owned by American Airlines, and are even the same type rating as those actually operated by pilots of American Airlines (our shiny new 175s are the same type rating as Mainline’s 190s), you should be PAID the same as pilots at American Airlines who are doing the SAME JOB. $88 and hour for new-hire FOs and $161 an hour for DECs is fair for the same work. Stop viewing yourselves as anything less than what you are truly worth. If AA is willing to pay those rates for pilots who have AA employee numbers to operate the Embraer 170/190 type while moving their passengers, then we should expect nothing less. After all, equal work means equal pay in The United States Of America.
04-29-2018, 08:32 AM
#8135
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2014
Posts: 273
I completely agree with what you've said. I think the disconnect is that people are very entitled and expect a lot of a stepping stone career move. There's a balance. I don't want to be bent over (which is why I got out of the industry in 2012), but I also don't think we should be paid 150k a year and have equal work rules as the majors.
I'm a libertarian at heart... Companies can do as they wish... It's up to the employees to walk out if the work rules are unsatisfactory. We have the power
I'm a libertarian at heart... Companies can do as they wish... It's up to the employees to walk out if the work rules are unsatisfactory. We have the power
UAL is hiring 1500 hr CFIs direct to mainline. If we are safe enough to fly a 175 on former 737 routes we should get paid for such duties.
If you think differently quit and go drive a school bus.
04-29-2018, 08:58 AM
#8136
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2015
Position: Right Seat - Low Wing
Posts: 229
I completely agree with what you've said. I think the disconnect is that people are very entitled and expect a lot of a stepping stone career move. There's a balance. I don't want to be bent over (which is why I got out of the industry in 2012), but I also don't think we should be paid 150k a year and have equal work rules as the majors.
04-29-2018, 10:54 AM
#8139
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Position: Resigned
Posts: 1,547
Ever think we get paid 1/3 because they get paid 5/3's? What if the real market price of flying is somewhere in between what regional and mainline pilots are earning right now, and we're basically subsidizing them? The real winners are the ones with a golden ticket -- diversity based or fighter jock on the resume.
04-29-2018, 10:59 AM
#8140
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2009
Position: 787
Posts: 469
This
and this
I have been saying this all throughout the 5-years I spent in AA's commercial org. AA would not exist if their entire fleet consisted of 777s, just as we would not exist without E145s and CRJ2s. We are essential parts of the network strategy (and not because of our cost), and should be compensated as such. These 'stepping stone', 'internship' and 'minor league' analogies need to stop (passengers are NOT paying for a minor league experience if they happen to be flying to YYC vs. YVR).
Rant over!
After 9 years at these so-called “stepping stones,” I’m done with viewing them as such. When you are moving passengers who bought tickets from American Airlines on airplanes that are owned by American Airlines, and are even the same type rating as those actually operated by pilots of American Airlines (our shiny new 175s are the same type rating as Mainline’s 190s), you should be PAID the same as pilots at American Airlines who are doing the SAME JOB. $88 and hour for new-hire FOs and $161 an hour for DECs is fair for the same work. Stop viewing yourselves as anything less than what you are truly worth. If AA is willing to pay those rates for pilots who have AA employee numbers to operate the Embraer 170/190 type while moving their passengers, then we should expect nothing less. After all, equal work means equal pay in The United States Of America.
Why should we get paid 1/3 of the rate (and no 16% DC) of an 190 driver Just because our 175 says eagle on the side.
UAL is hiring 1500 hr CFIs direct to mainline. If we are safe enough to fly a 175 on former 737 routes we should get paid for such duties.
If you think differently quit and go drive a school bus.
UAL is hiring 1500 hr CFIs direct to mainline. If we are safe enough to fly a 175 on former 737 routes we should get paid for such duties.
If you think differently quit and go drive a school bus.
Rant over!
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