Big Perm

This guy is tracking. 121 guys are coming for the fast upgrade, flow and bonus.
I'm second guessing my decision too

highfarfast

If I had come here on the new rules, I'd have come in group three but I'd have still come. Pay/bonus/DFW is why I'm here. Others that are in different situations may look at it differently.

Guessing I'd have still gotten the 145 anyway so I'm not sure it would have made a big difference in the end. Also, by the time I do upgrade, all these 'almost street captains' will be junior to me so it's not like I don't see a benefit to me. Just think the union should have taken a different angle with this.

Sheg0theD

Curious for the guys second guessing Envoy now... is it because you may not get the 175 with the new LOA? If that was the case why not go to Compass or RAH if that was your biggest concern.

You can still get DFW on the 145 and not have to worry about potentially getting displaced to ORD.

I’ll be honest I am a previous 121 guy,but the equipment is not what attracted me to Envoy it was the DFW base and the benefits (health insurance for a family is not cheap). The only benefit I see for me out of this new LOA is the peace of mind knowing I won’t get the CRJ and I will be able to get DFW at some point.

Plus who wants to take a $5,000 bonus cut just to fly an airplane that has engines under the wings??


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

GymPilot

I have been flying long enough and had my fun flying the cool new jets. I've learned, as I hope those younger than me will learn quickly, don't chase the equipment. Chase the QOL. With a family and responsibilities here in south Florida I wanted the 145 to stay close to family. I want (almost need) MIA as soon as possible. I chose Envoy for the bases, upgrade time, and bonus. A plane is a plane is a plane, makes no difference IMHO.

Sheg0theD

Understandable.. I can tell you I am in the next class there is 6 cadets and 10 121 guys. The class size is 67 ( From what I was told). That leaves 51 people in group three and I can’t imagine there would be that many CRJ slots. If MIA was your goal I think you would still be able to get the 145 assuming you aren’t in your early 20s.

I agree with you on everything else. The 175 scares me with it being new to the company and the recruiter today told me that 80 FOs and 80 Captains will be going to ORD. The recruiter also mentioned that the company was going to try and avoid displacements, but we all know how this industry works.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

itsmytime

One other problem for the older guys that no one is talking about. When you flow, that 22 year old will now be senior to you at AA. You'll never outbid him before you retire. You're running classes of 50+ per month. You didn't need to tweak anything to get people in the door.

HighFlight

I'm curious as to what you mean about not getting the CRJ. Is there something wrong with it?

Sheg0theD

Absolutely not, most of my experience is in Bombardier aircraft. The only issue with the CRJ is you are land locked to ORD. If I lived in Chicago or anywhere close, I would be all about it. Hence why I said I would be able to get to DFW at some point in my previous post.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

havick206

They're probably playing the long game and trying to lock in as many cadet instructors now once the pool of currently qualified applicants dries up in the next 2-3 years. It also sounds like they're hedging their bets each way by trying to entice 121 guys in the interim.

Just a guess but I could be wrong.

Whiskey4

Cadets with employment agreements are already employees of Envoy. This basically seems like a way to reward them since they can't accumulate seniority while not on the pilot seniority list. It also gets the future generation of pilots excited about coming to Envoy (and someday AA).

I'm sure they want the 121 folks to switch teams, upgrade quickly, and flow/move on to AA. Remember, AA likely has a hand in Envoy's strategic moves since they are already working the long-term pilot issue as well. Without people who are quickly upgradable (and experienced 121 operators...likely helps with safety and pass rate), Envoy may risk not have the captains necessary to man planes. That would mean slowing or stagnant growth as AA places flying elsewhere. It looks to be like the "third group" (non-cadet/non-121) could actually benefit from any increase in lateral transfers.