Envoy
04-04-2017, 03:52 PM
#2162
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 699
You are outsourcing pilot jobs to lower paid contractors that don't have union benefits, union protection, and don't pay union dues.
This is a concessionary agreement. Plain and simple.
Sim instructors should be on the seniority list. Those jobs should be available to pilots that choose to take them. Subcontracting them out is just creating a "C" scale training pilot.
This is a concessionary agreement. Plain and simple.
Sim instructors should be on the seniority list. Those jobs should be available to pilots that choose to take them. Subcontracting them out is just creating a "C" scale training pilot.
04-04-2017, 04:12 PM
#2163
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2014
Posts: 259
Hotel:
Assuming they aren't having problems with the hotels, you'll most likely stay at a Holiday Inn near DFW. I've heard of people staying at surrounding La Quintas when they do have issues. Either way, its single occupancy. You'll typically get the hotel reservation for the day before a training event starts, with a day or two after the event ends. When they send you home to complete your Computer Based Training, you can actually request to stay at the hotel for a week to work in it. As far as the surrounding area, you've got highway on both sides, although some sidewalks allow you to make your way across those busy intersections into the neighboring gas stations and restaurants. Some rooms have a fridge and microwave, some others don't. If you need one keep bugging the front desk about it and they'll move you to one eventually.
Dress:
Khaki pants, or any kind of slacks, and a polo or button up shirt. You'll be provided two company polos at the end of indoc. Athletic footwear is allowed if you don't want to wear dress shoes.
Pay:
On the first day of indoc you are handed your $15,000 sign on bonus check, assuming you are a new hire. The taxes are already taken out depending on your home state. Some people received around $9,000, others closer to $11,000. After your first day when your aircraft is chosen, you'll be eligible for another $5,000 check, again with taxes already taken out. Expect around 3,000 for that check. It is mailed home so you'll have to deposit it when you get back. As far as your salary goes, during training you'll be paid somewhere around 1300-1600 each pay period (2 weeks). Depends on how much per diem is added on since you are paid per diem for some reason while you are sent home in between training events.
Food:
The restaurant in the hotel has decent food, although expensive. You'll spend about $15 a meal after the tip. Unless you leave the tip out since the service is for the most part terrible with 1 poor server working all the tables. You can get $5 off vouchers for skipping room service each day that you can use at the restaurant. Within a 5 minute walking distance you have access to multiple restaurants and at least 2 gas stations. There's a Walmart about a mile and a half down the highway for groceries.
While at the Envoy HQ, there is a cafeteria you can have lunch at. It's also a little pricey. A whole mess of restaurants are available a 2 minute drive down the road.
Things to bring:
Logbooks, pilot's certificate, medical, photo ID, passport, just to name some of the more important items. Refer to the emails that are sent out before training for a more exhaustive list.
You'll be issued a company ipad Air 2 on the first day of class, so most of your documents will be covered there. You'll still have plenty of paperwork given to you during indoc so bring a backpack or something to class to carry it all in.
Uniforms:
At some point during indoc workers will come in who will have you try on different uniform garments to size you up. You'll leave with a sheet that has the sizes of each piece of the uniform you tried on. It's up to you to order them at the website that is provided. You won't pay anything when you order but 50% of the cost will come out of a future paycheck. It comes out to somewhere around $800 total for the uniform, unless you skip ordering the hat you're not required to wear.
Misc:
There's free coffee each morning in the lobby. A small convince store where you can buy snacks, drinks, etc. There is also soap and fabric softener sold that you can use in the laundry room on the fifth floor. It contains a single washer and dryer for the entire building. Don't expect to do your laundry on a Sunday night. The washer and dryer are coin only.
On the first floor there is a room set aside for Envoy pilots that contains 2 computers and two paper cockpits of the 145 and CRJ. One of the computers has an 145 FMS simulator. Expect to spend a good amount of time with your classmates in here practicing flows and provides. IMO, if there's more than 3 people already at the trainer don't stick around, it just gets loud and chaotic. You'll be given cockpit posters you can stick up on the wall in your room, those will work fine practicing with your sim partner.
Class begins at 7AM most days, expect to hop on the shuttle heading out there between 6:00 - 6:30. It gets crowded.
Training:
The training department is struggling very much right now to keep up with the influx of new hires. At least on the EMB145 side. Your mileage may vary but this is what I typically saw as far as a schedule goes:
Indoc: Monday - Friday 7AM-4PM, weekend off, final test on Monday
After Indoc there is a break depending on current training capacity. It may be a week, 2 weeks, a month. You'll find out closer to the end of Indoc.
SPC/GET: You'll come back for 3 days of misc. and cabin training procedures. 7AM-4PM
CBT: You'll be sent home again for a 1.5 - 2 weeks to complete your online systems courses. Expect to spend about 30 hours on these total. You're given access to them after Indoc so you can actually get them done early if you wish.
SYS/IPT: 7 Days of class and paper cockpit training with your sim partner and an instructor. Each day is divided in two with 4 hours of class, and 4 hours of paper trainer. 7 day's worth, with a Saturday and Sunday off in between.
CPT: 2 days of non-motion FTD training doing the same thing as your IPT, but you can actually hit the buttons. Happens immediately after the end of IPT. 2 days with 4 hour lessons, sim time dependent on seniority.
SV/PV: This is your oral for the 145 followed immediately by a validation in your flows in profiles. Just like in IPT/CBT. Happens anywhere from 1-3 days after the end of CPT. Not a checking event, no pink slip if you unsat.
There's another break after this depending on training capacity. Not too long though, 1-2 weeks.
SIMS: 7 lessons in a full motion sim practicing your maneuvers. 4 Hour blocks.
MV: Validation of the maneuvers you learned during SIMs, last item before your checkride, QLOE. Not a checking event, no pink slip if you unsat.
QLOE: Maneuvers checkride for your ATP certificate and Type rating.
Another long wait here, I've been told its 4-5 weeks before you start IOE
IOE: Start flying revenue flights with a designated IOE captain who flys with many new hires. Technically still training.
As far as total time goes, from the beginning of Indoc to your QLOE, you'll expect to spend about 3 months? This can vary on depending on how backed up training is. And all these times are for the 145, as I understand the CRJ and 175 pilots spend less time waiting since they have less pilots going through them.
Assuming they aren't having problems with the hotels, you'll most likely stay at a Holiday Inn near DFW. I've heard of people staying at surrounding La Quintas when they do have issues. Either way, its single occupancy. You'll typically get the hotel reservation for the day before a training event starts, with a day or two after the event ends. When they send you home to complete your Computer Based Training, you can actually request to stay at the hotel for a week to work in it. As far as the surrounding area, you've got highway on both sides, although some sidewalks allow you to make your way across those busy intersections into the neighboring gas stations and restaurants. Some rooms have a fridge and microwave, some others don't. If you need one keep bugging the front desk about it and they'll move you to one eventually.
Dress:
Khaki pants, or any kind of slacks, and a polo or button up shirt. You'll be provided two company polos at the end of indoc. Athletic footwear is allowed if you don't want to wear dress shoes.
Pay:
On the first day of indoc you are handed your $15,000 sign on bonus check, assuming you are a new hire. The taxes are already taken out depending on your home state. Some people received around $9,000, others closer to $11,000. After your first day when your aircraft is chosen, you'll be eligible for another $5,000 check, again with taxes already taken out. Expect around 3,000 for that check. It is mailed home so you'll have to deposit it when you get back. As far as your salary goes, during training you'll be paid somewhere around 1300-1600 each pay period (2 weeks). Depends on how much per diem is added on since you are paid per diem for some reason while you are sent home in between training events.
Food:
The restaurant in the hotel has decent food, although expensive. You'll spend about $15 a meal after the tip. Unless you leave the tip out since the service is for the most part terrible with 1 poor server working all the tables. You can get $5 off vouchers for skipping room service each day that you can use at the restaurant. Within a 5 minute walking distance you have access to multiple restaurants and at least 2 gas stations. There's a Walmart about a mile and a half down the highway for groceries.
While at the Envoy HQ, there is a cafeteria you can have lunch at. It's also a little pricey. A whole mess of restaurants are available a 2 minute drive down the road.
Things to bring:
Logbooks, pilot's certificate, medical, photo ID, passport, just to name some of the more important items. Refer to the emails that are sent out before training for a more exhaustive list.
You'll be issued a company ipad Air 2 on the first day of class, so most of your documents will be covered there. You'll still have plenty of paperwork given to you during indoc so bring a backpack or something to class to carry it all in.
Uniforms:
At some point during indoc workers will come in who will have you try on different uniform garments to size you up. You'll leave with a sheet that has the sizes of each piece of the uniform you tried on. It's up to you to order them at the website that is provided. You won't pay anything when you order but 50% of the cost will come out of a future paycheck. It comes out to somewhere around $800 total for the uniform, unless you skip ordering the hat you're not required to wear.
Misc:
There's free coffee each morning in the lobby. A small convince store where you can buy snacks, drinks, etc. There is also soap and fabric softener sold that you can use in the laundry room on the fifth floor. It contains a single washer and dryer for the entire building. Don't expect to do your laundry on a Sunday night. The washer and dryer are coin only.
On the first floor there is a room set aside for Envoy pilots that contains 2 computers and two paper cockpits of the 145 and CRJ. One of the computers has an 145 FMS simulator. Expect to spend a good amount of time with your classmates in here practicing flows and provides. IMO, if there's more than 3 people already at the trainer don't stick around, it just gets loud and chaotic. You'll be given cockpit posters you can stick up on the wall in your room, those will work fine practicing with your sim partner.
Class begins at 7AM most days, expect to hop on the shuttle heading out there between 6:00 - 6:30. It gets crowded.
Training:
The training department is struggling very much right now to keep up with the influx of new hires. At least on the EMB145 side. Your mileage may vary but this is what I typically saw as far as a schedule goes:
Indoc: Monday - Friday 7AM-4PM, weekend off, final test on Monday
After Indoc there is a break depending on current training capacity. It may be a week, 2 weeks, a month. You'll find out closer to the end of Indoc.
SPC/GET: You'll come back for 3 days of misc. and cabin training procedures. 7AM-4PM
CBT: You'll be sent home again for a 1.5 - 2 weeks to complete your online systems courses. Expect to spend about 30 hours on these total. You're given access to them after Indoc so you can actually get them done early if you wish.
SYS/IPT: 7 Days of class and paper cockpit training with your sim partner and an instructor. Each day is divided in two with 4 hours of class, and 4 hours of paper trainer. 7 day's worth, with a Saturday and Sunday off in between.
CPT: 2 days of non-motion FTD training doing the same thing as your IPT, but you can actually hit the buttons. Happens immediately after the end of IPT. 2 days with 4 hour lessons, sim time dependent on seniority.
SV/PV: This is your oral for the 145 followed immediately by a validation in your flows in profiles. Just like in IPT/CBT. Happens anywhere from 1-3 days after the end of CPT. Not a checking event, no pink slip if you unsat.
There's another break after this depending on training capacity. Not too long though, 1-2 weeks.
SIMS: 7 lessons in a full motion sim practicing your maneuvers. 4 Hour blocks.
MV: Validation of the maneuvers you learned during SIMs, last item before your checkride, QLOE. Not a checking event, no pink slip if you unsat.
QLOE: Maneuvers checkride for your ATP certificate and Type rating.
Another long wait here, I've been told its 4-5 weeks before you start IOE
IOE: Start flying revenue flights with a designated IOE captain who flys with many new hires. Technically still training.
As far as total time goes, from the beginning of Indoc to your QLOE, you'll expect to spend about 3 months? This can vary on depending on how backed up training is. And all these times are for the 145, as I understand the CRJ and 175 pilots spend less time waiting since they have less pilots going through them.
Dude!!! Giving hotel info is not cool man!
04-04-2017, 05:03 PM
#2166
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2015
Posts: 687
04-04-2017, 05:07 PM
#2167
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2014
Posts: 259
04-04-2017, 05:09 PM
#2168
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,523
You are outsourcing pilot jobs to lower paid contractors that don't have union benefits, union protection, and don't pay union dues.
This is a concessionary agreement. Plain and simple.
Sim instructors should be on the seniority list. Those jobs should be available to pilots that choose to take them. Subcontracting them out is just creating a "C" scale training pilot.
This is a concessionary agreement. Plain and simple.
Sim instructors should be on the seniority list. Those jobs should be available to pilots that choose to take them. Subcontracting them out is just creating a "C" scale training pilot.
04-04-2017, 05:35 PM
#2170
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: Pawn
Posts: 1,138
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
