bigtime209

Well first off, this has nothing to do with AA supposedly just aching for more flow from its WOs. Secondly, the flow is a huge incentive for AA. Because by offering flow, it enables them to keep pay rates and benefits in the gutter. Don't worry, you'll eventually figure it out after you have some time here.

dera

That's why I said "right now". And I did get in. I was the only OTS candidate they hired from the people interviewing that day.
Your points may be valid, but again - I would not go to a regional without flow, and living in base is huge for me. So Envoy really was the only option for me.

Cyio

Congrats and welcome, Envoy is excellent for the right person and the absolute worst place to be for the wrong person. If you live in base, this will be a dream job for you.

As for Bigtime, he/she means well, but I see your point as well. Hiring people from a flow is absolutely a known factor, very similar to going through their own OTS/Military hiring process. They know where we lived, who we worked for, our attendance, our pass/failures etc, all with very little work to obtain it. Not that they couldn't through other means, but this is a known factor.

The most valuable aspect of the flow to AA is that it offers both forecasted employee replacement with the ability to keep costs down at the regional level, at least for now.

SilentLurker

@ 3rd yr CA pay rate

Come Nov 1st a SKYWEST Pilot will earn $1200/month more on avg than a Envoy Pilot with “Flow”. Ask yourselves if interested in Envoy, is flow worth $14,500/yr (Avg estimate/base pay only, not accounting for Skywest’s PPS Pay, and performance bonuses, etc that far exceeds Envoy).


Ask yourselves is a 7 to 9+ yrs until flow worth it??? Plan for a regional career when selecting a regional carrier.

I personally did I’m very comfortable with my decision to come here, lots of pros going on at Envoy, and AA is my ultimate goal! So it is a no brainer to come here at the time if AA is your ultimate goal, come to Envoy, PSA, Piedmont.

This place works great if AA is where you want to end up long term, so I came here for the best shot at AA, base location, bonus pay (at the time), great training, learning from experienced CA’s to kick-off my 121 career. This place works for me based on my timing at the time I entered. It still works for me today. I enjoy what I do and the people I work with.

Would I make the same decision today with the impending mainline retirements? No!
Based on AA OTS hiring forecast? No!
Based on Flow Metered? No!
“ “ on current pay lagging? No!
“ “ on Rsv rule lagging? No!

Not to say this place is not going to be great, I think (my thoughts) Envoy will be great in the next 3 yrs if the economy & gas prices hold up, and that’s a big IF.

IF IT HOLDS, NONE OF YOU INTERESTED IN AA AS YOUR TOP CHOICE WILL NEED THE WHOLLY OWNED “FLOW” TO GET TO AA.


Just my 2 cents worth of nothingness.

mketch11

I agree with this. If I could do it all over I would still have come to Envoy. However, if I was making the same decision today I would go somewhere else. It’s all about timing. I had peers trying to convince me to go to other airlines at the time and I spent hours scouring the forums and learning as much as I could before making an educated guess about where to start my career. Luckily, as of now, it seems as if I guessed right. All the people who say they know exactly where things are going are simply guessing as well. My guess is that a new hire today can expect to flow in around 8 years and will not see any significant contractual changes in pay rates until at least 2024. Whether you think you can get hired at a major/LLC before then or make more at a different regional to supplement a possibly longer wait for career progression at a non AA WO, is up to you to guess/decide.

moon

I wonder how much money you'd have at retirement if you invested the difference between Endeavor and Envoys pay rates in an Index fund. Say 120k over 6 years at 7% interest. All 120k invested by 35 gives you 30 years till retirement. 900Kish. If your young and smart with money and have 35 years that's 1.2M. That sounds like a good backup plan too, for gambling on yourself.

cr700

More like 5 and 7 at the outside for flow for someone hired today. Like others have said, trade a little bit of money for a guaranteed seat at AA.

ENH017

For the outsiders and perspective new hires reading these forums, if anyone tells you that new hires will flow in 5 years know that they work in recruiting, or are delusional. There's absolutely no data to support this claim unless they know of some outside source of (massive) attrition at this company coming soon.

dera

No-one claimed 5 years. The recruiters said 6-8 years should be realistic. Which it is, given the current numbers.

Houpilot2001

Until AA parks about 150 of their airplanes...then what.