New Envoy Information
#951
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
It's a sad day that an actual Ealge Lounger is now attempting to bring their cry fest on to this forum. Take off your bib for two seconds and consider the following:
Our contract states that we have to flow 50% of each AA new hire class per month metered to 30. This next month AA is bringing on 70 new hires. 50% of that would be 35 which allows the company to meter down to 30 if they wanted...and so they have. None of that is in violation of our contract. So what's your problem?
Our contract states that we have to flow 50% of each AA new hire class per month metered to 30. This next month AA is bringing on 70 new hires. 50% of that would be 35 which allows the company to meter down to 30 if they wanted...and so they have. None of that is in violation of our contract. So what's your problem?
Second, flowing 30 per month is hardly a tragedy although you fellas over on eagle lounge would cry if you were handed a brick of gold. 30/month is still over 300 a year. Go ask the PSA boys to cry for you...they get 5 per month. Go ask the boys over at Republic, Commutair, TSA, Gojets, or anywhere else to cry for you. They get zero flows to anywhere.
Third, you fellas on eagle lounge are experts on crying, complaining, and generally beeyaching about EVERY-SINGLE-THING. But come up with solutions for once. First, explain how flowing 30 in a month that AA hires 70 is in violation of anything. It isn't. Second, explain how flowing 300+ per year is such a sad-sad day.
Finally, tell us how you folks on eagle lounge would handle the recalls at AA. American set May of 2016 as the deadline for all furloughed pilots to return. After that it's game over for all them. A couple of number crunchers at AA recently took a shot in the dark at how many recalls would be coming back by May. Then they estimated based on those numbers they would need 3 months of no new hires and no flows to get all those guys through training. Then those numbers were relayed to Ric and are constantly changing. Come May they could realize they will only actually need 2 months to get them trained, or one.
So what's your solution? American has limited resources just like any other company in the world. They only have so much sim time, so many classrooms, and so many instructors. And they only operate on the same 24 hour clock as the rest of us do. So instead of your usual eagle lounge crying, offer a solution. Keep in mind that telling the recalls to go pound sand is NOT a solution.
So what's your solution? American has limited resources just like any other company in the world. They only have so much sim time, so many classrooms, and so many instructors. And they only operate on the same 24 hour clock as the rest of us do. So instead of your usual eagle lounge crying, offer a solution. Keep in mind that telling the recalls to go pound sand is NOT a solution.
Go change your underwear and take a deep breath. Flowing 300 for the year is significantly more than anyone else can say and is more than this company has ever flowed before. That number will be larger after 2016 with no more recalls. If AA hires more than 60 can the company meter to 30? Yes, it's in the contract. Is 30 flows per month horrible? Not by a long shot...that's still a huge number.
At least now everyone here can see exactly who and what a few of these characters really are here. It is simply undeniable.
#952
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
Dangerous thoughts, lets focus on honoring the contract. 5 per month over a year is 60 pilots. Putting #60 2 months behind schedule. then 4 months after 2 years . then 6 months after 3 years and so on. In an industry where seniority is everything it is something we cannot stand for. It is not whining, its something bargained for, that needs to be honored. I enjoy working for Envoy, or more like barely working for Envoy (seriously why are we metering?), but these contract provisions need to be fought for, or we set dangerous precedent.
#953
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
b. The intent of this agreement is to provide 50% of the AA new hire training slots to 824 AE pilots in such a way that the AE operation is not disrupted.
Tell me how the operation is being disrupted when there are zero time lines, pilots sitting at home on reserve for an entire month without being called, inefficient schedules, etc;
If management thinks that our operation will be disrupted in the current environment, then what type of environment do you envision where it won't be disrupted?
Tell me how the operation is being disrupted when there are zero time lines, pilots sitting at home on reserve for an entire month without being called, inefficient schedules, etc;
If management thinks that our operation will be disrupted in the current environment, then what type of environment do you envision where it won't be disrupted?
#954
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2015
Posts: 687
Read the contract again. It's 50% metered to 30. If they want to meter to 30 they can and they don't have to have a good reason to do so. The overstaffed argument is fine, and should be made. But contractually they are doing nothing wrong. For much of 2015 100% of AA classes were Envoy flows. So it's not like they are trying to pick on anyone..but if playing victim makes you feel better then by all means...
For a company who preaches the flow as the only thing needed to recruit new hires, I'd say they have greatly damaged their recruiting efforts based on this one month too. Keeping 5 here could mean losing 20 new hires, if they were on the fence about the flow.
#955
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2015
Posts: 416
At least they're doing it now so it serves as a warning for all potential new-hires. Personally, I couldn't care less right now if envoy recruits the suppose 350 that they want for 2016. Our outstanding on-time performance and the fact that we're overstaffed clearly have no bearing on us keeping more flying in-house. This entire airlines business plan revolves around dangling carrots.
#956
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
At least they're doing it now so it serves as a warning for all potential new-hires. Personally, I couldn't care less right now if envoy recruits the suppose 350 that they want for 2016. Our outstanding on-time performance and the fact that we're overstaffed clearly have no bearing on us keeping more flying in-house. This entire airlines business plan revolves around dangling carrots.
I think this road is littered with red flags right now, even more so then just a few months ago. We shall see.............
#957
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Posts: 179
There are 70 total AA new hires in February. Envoy has announced that only 30 will flow in February. They are required to flow 50%, which would be 35 in this case.
The "metering" to 30/month is only allowed if it would hurt Envoy's ability to staff our flying. Clearly, since we have zero-time/part-time/below-guarantee lines, we have the ability to release the full 50%.
They could still make this right by flowing the required 50% in February; however I have no confidence in them following the contract.
50% is 50%.
The "metering" to 30/month is only allowed if it would hurt Envoy's ability to staff our flying. Clearly, since we have zero-time/part-time/below-guarantee lines, we have the ability to release the full 50%.
They could still make this right by flowing the required 50% in February; however I have no confidence in them following the contract.
50% is 50%.
#959
Banned
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2014
Posts: 787
There are 70 total AA new hires in February. Envoy has announced that only 30 will flow in February. They are required to flow 50%, which would be 35 in this case.
The "metering" to 30/month is only allowed if it would hurt Envoy's ability to staff our flying. Clearly, since we have zero-time/part-time/below-guarantee lines, we have the ability to release the full 50%.
They could still make this right by flowing the required 50% in February; however I have no confidence in them following the contract.
50% is 50%.
The "metering" to 30/month is only allowed if it would hurt Envoy's ability to staff our flying. Clearly, since we have zero-time/part-time/below-guarantee lines, we have the ability to release the full 50%.
They could still make this right by flowing the required 50% in February; however I have no confidence in them following the contract.
50% is 50%.
I'll try to explain as best I can:
We get 50% of each AA class metered to 30. Not 50% period. What does that mean in practice?
Example #1: AA hires 100 pilots in a month. Envoy gets 50% which is 50. If the company wants to meter they can do so down to 30 and no less.
Example #2: AA hires 50 pilots in a month. Envoy gets 50% which is 25. Since 25 is less than 30 the company couldn't meter even if they wanted to. All 25 would have to go.
So what's happening next month? AA is hiring 70, which gives Envoy up to 35 flows. BUT, per our contract the company can meter down to 30 and that is what they are doing. They don't have to have a good reason to do so, they can because our contract has that clause.
On the bright side, that clause means that the company has to send minimum of 30. They can't send only 5 and claim it's because of staffing issues. That would be much worse, wouldn't it? Can you imagine the fit people would be throwing if we only flowed 5 next month, 10 the month after that, then 5 again, and so on. At least that clause makes the company send no less than 30, which in a year with no hiring gaps due to recalls is 360/year.
Also, consider the following: The metered to 30 clause is ONLY for the 824 group. The Protected Pilot group gets 50% flow (after the 40th E175) with no metered to 30 clause. That means that once the PP group starts to flow, and AA hires 70 like they are doing now we will have to flow 35. They won't be able to meter down to 30. The 824 are due to finish flowing in early 2017 and the 40th E175 should be on property by then if not sooner. So yes, expect 360+ flows for 2017 and beyond. The recalls will all have come back by this summer as well so there will be no more hiring gaps either.
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