BobJenkins

Why are you discussing your personal dating preferences on a regional forum???

snippercr

hmmmm

FlameNSky

It doesn't matter. Arbitrated or Contractual -- The flow will work because it will save Doug money. Even if Reverend McKenzie is correct and they do not follow the contract, the precedence has already been set and those effected can expect to flow at second or third year pay as was the case with the "286 Are TWA guys new hires or not" Flowthroughs.

Skyvector

Yeah, awkward. Go check the transfer of aircraft to AA settlement. It's in there. Or don't...makes no difference.

SkyWago

Some wording from Letter 12-04,

"Eagle Pilots represented by ALPA and in order to implement this Grievance Settlement Agreement, Eagle has requested, and American Airlines, Inc. ("American" or "AA") has agreed in a separate Agreement, that American will provide preferential hiring to Eagle pilots who are on the Eagle Pilots Seniority List on October 11, 2011 ("Protected Pilots") for pilot employment opportunities at American in accordance with the terms of that separate Agreement...."

And those with access can decide to read further if they wish.

Aviatrx

So....Sounds like the PP is a mediated agreement resulting from the grievance over the "transfer of Eagle aircraft to AA". I believe it is equal in strength to an arbitrated resolution as the agreement did not require an arbitrators involvement. The PP agreement is contractual. I really don't believe the company has any intent to curb the agreement. AAG's interests appear to be to maintain the regional model with flow through and pipelines. As confident as I am in the flow, there is always the possibility of unforeseen circumstances that the company could claim hardship and not honor it for a period of time. Flow is pretty good insurance while applying for a good legacy job, if that is your goal.

FlameNSky

I am sure that chignutsak and buddies8 will be apologizing to RyanP at any time now...

eaglefly

They cannot post it because it doesn't exist. An arbitration award has a decision (award) decided by an arbitrator with his signature at the end. That doesn't exist. What DOES exist is a Letter of Agreement (LOA) between management and Envoy ALPA. Those are two VERY different things and management sought agreement of this issue instead of risking an arbitrated decision for very important reason and that' an arbitrated award can be argued to survive a contract while an LOA cannot. Flame's assertion that it "does not matter" is an indication he knows it isn't arbitrated and the fact is it DOES matter.

The PP pilots want to believe..............no HAVE to believe nothing will impede their flow at the present rate as to consider another reality is simply to horrifying and thus denial is in full swing. Envoy pilots were similarly handed a rusty musket by the past union fiefdom when their transfer rights with aircraft were given away for so far, essentially nothing but misery. Will the Envoy flow stop after the last of the 824 ?

Not likely.

It IS however, a pivot point where AAG is then free to morph Envoy and/or other WO's into what they want to do long-term and not be encumbered with a legal hassles of an arbitration that individual pilots can claim harm as the 824. Once 824 are gone, I would look for AAG to announce the world has again changed and that Envoy PP pilots will have to accept inclusion in a more modest stream of flows including other pilots effectively slowing the flow rate for legacy Envoy pilots. Envoy ALPA will negotiate, but ultimately whatever is achieved will be a dilution of the present flow promises implied in that LOA.

What everyone is seeing here is simply the same attitudes of the past there where many pilots assume things only to have the rug pulled out from under them (again) simply because they over-assumed. Realistic expectations have NEVER been part of the Envoy pilot existence and that is why denial is so rampant and rage and hostility are then directed at those that highlight that psychological existence. But, the beat goes on to the rhythm of the tom-toms of fantasy..............

eaglefly

No need.

That LOA and a signed arbitrators award are not and have never been identical. That is simply the misguided hope of some here who want them to be and thus believe they are. AAG will be able to choke Envoy ALPA into submission just like they did before to get what they want, the only difference with the PP agreement is that (aside from 12/4 pay caps and other contractual modifications like reserve which will give THEM what they want), it will be mostly new reps that learn just like TT and the present ones (most of whom will have ejected to AA by then) how the game is played.

You'd think most Envoy pilots would have figured it out by now, but no.........at least a few here really believe this time it will be different. I feel for you guys in that way, truly I do. I think there will be some painful realities splashed in your face like ice cold water in the future if you think Envoy is going to flow PP pilots at the present rate.

FlameNSky

Seriously, you sound like more of a lunatic than they guy that stands on the corner with a megaphone preaching the end of the world. He has yelled at me that the world is coming to an end in 6 months for years now. Keep hoping and preachin, Reverand.