New Envoy Information
01-01-2016, 05:55 PM
#711
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Posts: 854
I agree 100%. 16 years ago, new hires were told they would be at AA in 5 years. Today, new hires are being told 6 years. Not a bit of difference. Nobody knows when or IF they will ever flow.
Shortly someone will be on here talking about the reason behind the 16 year guys just flowing today are the uncontrollable events of 9/11 and the Great Recession.
10 years from now, someone could be on here talking about the reason 2010 hires are just now flowing is due to the uncontrollable event of the Great Pilot Shortage.
Shortly someone will be on here talking about the reason behind the 16 year guys just flowing today are the uncontrollable events of 9/11 and the Great Recession.
10 years from now, someone could be on here talking about the reason 2010 hires are just now flowing is due to the uncontrollable event of the Great Pilot Shortage.
I agree that they have lied in the past and that they lie to us every day, so we should ignore everything they say and look to other evidence when making our guesses. The length of flow in 1999 is evidence of nothing.
01-01-2016, 08:17 PM
#712
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2015
Posts: 540
So in other words, you are unable to answer basic questions that any Envoy pilot could? Yeah, May 2013 hire right?
Sure...you work here. You have everyone fooled...tell you what. If you want to be an Envoy pilot so bad, apply. I'll interview you personally. It'll be fun, I promise.
Sure...you work here. You have everyone fooled...tell you what. If you want to be an Envoy pilot so bad, apply. I'll interview you personally. It'll be fun, I promise.
AAG management falls on the floor laughing every time Envoy ALPA meets with them. The realize that Envoyites are hoodwinked into buying this flow malarkey and as a result, we get paid crap wages and get treated like dirt. I'm sure AAG will string this out as long as they can. It looks good now while they are purging the 824. After that though when Envoy is "right sized" then I think the flow spigot will be turned down to a trickle. Just enough to have guys think they'll make it over to AA one day.
The few new hires out there need to be aware of what they are getting into if they sign on the dotted line with Envoy.
01-01-2016, 08:19 PM
#713
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2015
Posts: 540
That's great. If you really agree 100%, then stop saying that the flow today is 16 years. You don't know what the flow is going to be for new hires today.
I agree that they have lied in the past and that they lie to us every day, so we should ignore everything they say and look to other evidence when making our guesses. The length of flow in 1999 is evidence of nothing.
I agree that they have lied in the past and that they lie to us every day, so we should ignore everything they say and look to other evidence when making our guesses. The length of flow in 1999 is evidence of nothing.
01-01-2016, 08:22 PM
#714
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2015
Posts: 540
If not for 9/11, what reasons can you give as to why guys hired 16 years ago wouldn't have flowed in 5-6 years.
How ling had you been at an airline in 99-01?
I was hired at Eagle in 99. I was awarded SF3 captain 9/4/01. Guys in my time frame were actually debating whether or not to wait for RJ captain since we would probably still be in a seat lock if we took a prop upgrade.
While that has no bearing on the future flow through, comparing it to the past is apples vs oranges
How ling had you been at an airline in 99-01?
I was hired at Eagle in 99. I was awarded SF3 captain 9/4/01. Guys in my time frame were actually debating whether or not to wait for RJ captain since we would probably still be in a seat lock if we took a prop upgrade.
While that has no bearing on the future flow through, comparing it to the past is apples vs oranges
What is fact though is that the company metered the flow in recent years for their own purposes. ALPA had to file a grievance. The company lies and can't be trusted and they are purposely selling this 6 year flow to get cheap new hires in the door.
01-02-2016, 06:06 AM
#715
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2008
Position: EMB 145 CA/FO
Posts: 71
I think the flow is bigger than getting new hire ENY pilots. I actually believe it is part of the AAG wholly-owned business model.
Believe me, they didn't do this just because the pilots wanted it.
That being said, beware envoy has its problems. Scheduling violates the contract regularly. You can point it out in black and white. They will see it and just say. File a grievance. I do and in 2015 have gotten back just over a thousand bucks. Was it worth the frustration?
To recap. I have seen a few things that will help new pilots make a decision. Right now it's 16 years to flow. Subtract 10 years for 9/11. What do you have?
The flow will work. I believe envoy will be better for anyone considering it now than it has been for me.
Timing is everything, I think the timing is almost right for envoy. Just be aware it will still have major issues. Get involved in ALPA and make a difference.
Believe me, they didn't do this just because the pilots wanted it.
That being said, beware envoy has its problems. Scheduling violates the contract regularly. You can point it out in black and white. They will see it and just say. File a grievance. I do and in 2015 have gotten back just over a thousand bucks. Was it worth the frustration?
To recap. I have seen a few things that will help new pilots make a decision. Right now it's 16 years to flow. Subtract 10 years for 9/11. What do you have?
The flow will work. I believe envoy will be better for anyone considering it now than it has been for me.
Timing is everything, I think the timing is almost right for envoy. Just be aware it will still have major issues. Get involved in ALPA and make a difference.
01-04-2016, 06:32 PM
#719
Banned
Joined APC: Jan 2016
Posts: 3
Look, what I'm saying is that Envoy is just another dirtbag regional with little to no differentiation with RAH, Mesa, Gojets or TransStates.
AAG management falls on the floor laughing every time Envoy ALPA meets with them. The realize that Envoyites are hoodwinked into buying this flow malarkey and as a result, we get paid crap wages and get treated like dirt. I'm sure AAG will string this out as long as they can. It looks good now while they are purging the 824. After that though when Envoy is "right sized" then I think the flow spigot will be turned down to a trickle. Just enough to have guys think they'll make it over to AA one day.
The few new hires out there need to be aware of what they are getting into if they sign on the dotted line with Envoy.
AAG management falls on the floor laughing every time Envoy ALPA meets with them. The realize that Envoyites are hoodwinked into buying this flow malarkey and as a result, we get paid crap wages and get treated like dirt. I'm sure AAG will string this out as long as they can. It looks good now while they are purging the 824. After that though when Envoy is "right sized" then I think the flow spigot will be turned down to a trickle. Just enough to have guys think they'll make it over to AA one day.
The few new hires out there need to be aware of what they are getting into if they sign on the dotted line with Envoy.
Envoy is turning the corner and we seem to be positioned in an OK spot. Being fat on pilots and AA wanting a healthy amount of flows for 2016 and beyond could be our one starting advantage over PDT and PSA with them still looking for a ridiculous amount of new hires now for their programs that are nowhere near where they need to be.
01-08-2016, 07:51 AM
#720
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Posts: 65
Can you walk me through how, as a commuter, you arrange for that commute? For example, if you non-rev check-in 24hrs prior, how likely is it you'll get a seat? And if you do non-rev check-in, can you also be put on the list for jump seat? Basically, what is the best way to get to work? (my commute would be from LAX)
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