New Envoy Information
11-21-2016, 09:58 PM
#5981
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2011
Posts: 394
Would LGA be a better base than ORD for a guy just starting training?Looks like the class of 30 didn't help any of the past class ORD 145 new hires. Either way I'm going to have to commute. I wonder if they are going to continue hiring more into ORD or if they are going to start focusing hiring into LGA.
Getting into LGA now will be a nice seniority bump for a new hire since about half the base was left unfilled after the FO vacancy. I'd expect LGA to stay junior on the 145, followed by ORD, then DFW.
Depending on the amount of movement we have, it shouldn't take much longer than finishing IOE to hold the base you want.
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11-22-2016, 03:53 AM
#5983
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2016
Posts: 1,609
Well, the only thing that will help this is the new guys coming out of training. I don't think they will be able to get enough through IOE to make too much of a dent in these numbers.
11-22-2016, 04:05 AM
#5985
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2016
Posts: 439
11-22-2016, 04:09 AM
#5986
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2015
Posts: 33
I'm brand new to 121 and have less than 2500 hours total. I went to a job fair for Spirit but wasn't competitive. I'm building hours over here and plan to hit the fairs again as soon my time gets up. My life is way better here than Envoy. Reserve and hard lines here blow away Envoy.
Schedulers are way nicer as well. Seemed they were really vindictive when they called you over at Envoy and enjoyed making your life miserable.
Schedulers are way nicer as well. Seemed they were really vindictive when they called you over at Envoy and enjoyed making your life miserable.
11-22-2016, 05:17 AM
#5987
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2015
Posts: 687
I'm brand new to 121 and have less than 2500 hours total. I went to a job fair for Spirit but wasn't competitive. I'm building hours over here and plan to hit the fairs again as soon my time gets up. My life is way better here than Envoy. Reserve and hard lines here blow away Envoy.
Schedulers are way nicer as well. Seemed they were really vindictive when they called you over at Envoy and enjoyed making your life miserable.
Schedulers are way nicer as well. Seemed they were really vindictive when they called you over at Envoy and enjoyed making your life miserable.
11-22-2016, 06:37 AM
#5988
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2016
Posts: 439
I'm brand new to 121 and have less than 2500 hours total. I went to a job fair for Spirit but wasn't competitive. I'm building hours over here and plan to hit the fairs again as soon my time gets up. My life is way better here than Envoy. Reserve and hard lines here blow away Envoy.
Schedulers are way nicer as well. Seemed they were really vindictive when they called you over at Envoy and enjoyed making your life miserable.
Schedulers are way nicer as well. Seemed they were really vindictive when they called you over at Envoy and enjoyed making your life miserable.
Good luck.
11-22-2016, 09:14 AM
#5989
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2011
Posts: 394
For everyone complaining about the schedules, again I'll reference a letter from our own union scheduling committee sent out yesterday which says, "I mentioned last month that I was “cautiously optimistic” regarding our schedules moving into 2017.
I am upgrading that outlook to optimistic. See below."
Our own committee is optimistic that these atrocious schedules are being worked on and phased out by AAG and Envoy. The large pay increases were an immediate fix and improving the schedules is taking some time, but stop acting like things are hopeless here when clearly improvements are on the way.
Below is more excerpts from the letter:
I am upgrading that outlook to optimistic. See below."
Our own committee is optimistic that these atrocious schedules are being worked on and phased out by AAG and Envoy. The large pay increases were an immediate fix and improving the schedules is taking some time, but stop acting like things are hopeless here when clearly improvements are on the way.
Below is more excerpts from the letter:
Pairing Generation
During Pairing Generation, we put in a great deal of effort attempting to introduce variety into the CRJ and 175 lines.
On the 175, we tried many different studies to push 2 days, 3 days, a combination of 2s and 3s, as well as a 4-day study. Of the various studies, the combination approach looked most promising but they ended up being too weak to stand on their own in lines. The 4 day only study gave us the highest block per day at 4:25, the highest it has been in a while so we went with that knowing that it would give us less 2 days off, more commutability, and more cadent lines. The 175 continues to improve and I’m hoping to see some variety soon.
The CRJ had 3 day trips that were relatively strong, but in the end the 3 day sequences had to be mixed in with the 4 days.
Line Build
ERJ - We were able to get variety in both bases!
o DFW: 6 – 2 day lines, 20 – 3 day lines, 2 or less occurrences of 2 days off in the 4 day lines.
o ORD: 5 – 2 day lines / 27 – 3 day lines / it has more occurrences of 2 days off than DFW.
CRJ – As mentioned above, the 3 days had to be mixed with the 4 days. The planning department was able to work with the company to reduce the frequency of 30 hour overnights which resulted in an overall increase in 3 day off events, and improved start and end times for commuters.
175 – Out of 95 lines, 69 have at least 2 sets of 3 days off and only 8 are strictly 4 on 2 off.
We had some welcome improvements to the ERJ lines, as well as some smaller steps in the right direction for the CRJ and 175. I am encouraged that we had some progress in December as it is historically one of the most difficult scheduling months.
Many of the emails I received this month seem to follow the same theme: Where’s the variety? And, why all of the 4 days?
These questions go hand in hand. As you all know our average block per day has been weak for some time. If the 2 and 3 day sequences are weak, they cannot be put into lines that reach the 72-hour guarantee and still honor the contractual 11 days off. When we were in a staffing surplus, the company allowed lines to drop below guarantee, but that is no longer the case.
Generally speaking, a 4-day trip is the most productive. With the block per day being as low as it has been this past year, the prevalence of the 4-day trip is the natural result. Seeing nothing but 4 day lines in your bid packet is not so much a choice, but a last resort.
I mentioned last month that I was “cautiously optimistic” regarding our schedules moving into 2017.
I am upgrading that outlook to optimistic. See below.
Other News:
As a result of Envoy Crew Planning meeting with AAG Strategic Network Planning, many issues in the flight file are being corrected, which is great news. However, many of these changes will not be seen until after the Dec. 15 schedule change or in January. “Improvements” come in many forms, but here are some of the problem cites that should benefit:
ERJ: FWA, CAK, ROW, LRD, ORF, TRC, JAN, ALO, BMI, and GSO (in January)
CRJ: BNA and CID
175: IND, YUL, and YYC should see improvements in January.
These are pieces to the puzzle that do not represent the whole picture but are a considerable step in the right direction. Some of the benefits are already being seen in the December lines despite only going into effect in the second half of the month.
The Crew Planning Department is making a bit of a personnel shift with the ERJ planner stepping into a more forward looking role. When the rest of the planners are working on the January build, she will be looking as far ahead as March attempting to head off potential problems with the file and continue to seek improvements for Envoy. This will result in some shifting of responsibilities within the department and will no doubt come with some challenges in the spool up process. Regardless, it is refreshing to see the company attempt to “get ahead of the airplane” with the schedule and also for them to be afforded the opportunity to do so by AAG.
As always, your emails and input are welcome. Thank you to those that have reached out to us.
Wishing you an early Happy Thanksgiving!
During Pairing Generation, we put in a great deal of effort attempting to introduce variety into the CRJ and 175 lines.
On the 175, we tried many different studies to push 2 days, 3 days, a combination of 2s and 3s, as well as a 4-day study. Of the various studies, the combination approach looked most promising but they ended up being too weak to stand on their own in lines. The 4 day only study gave us the highest block per day at 4:25, the highest it has been in a while so we went with that knowing that it would give us less 2 days off, more commutability, and more cadent lines. The 175 continues to improve and I’m hoping to see some variety soon.
The CRJ had 3 day trips that were relatively strong, but in the end the 3 day sequences had to be mixed in with the 4 days.
Line Build
ERJ - We were able to get variety in both bases!
o DFW: 6 – 2 day lines, 20 – 3 day lines, 2 or less occurrences of 2 days off in the 4 day lines.
o ORD: 5 – 2 day lines / 27 – 3 day lines / it has more occurrences of 2 days off than DFW.
CRJ – As mentioned above, the 3 days had to be mixed with the 4 days. The planning department was able to work with the company to reduce the frequency of 30 hour overnights which resulted in an overall increase in 3 day off events, and improved start and end times for commuters.
175 – Out of 95 lines, 69 have at least 2 sets of 3 days off and only 8 are strictly 4 on 2 off.
We had some welcome improvements to the ERJ lines, as well as some smaller steps in the right direction for the CRJ and 175. I am encouraged that we had some progress in December as it is historically one of the most difficult scheduling months.
Many of the emails I received this month seem to follow the same theme: Where’s the variety? And, why all of the 4 days?
These questions go hand in hand. As you all know our average block per day has been weak for some time. If the 2 and 3 day sequences are weak, they cannot be put into lines that reach the 72-hour guarantee and still honor the contractual 11 days off. When we were in a staffing surplus, the company allowed lines to drop below guarantee, but that is no longer the case.
Generally speaking, a 4-day trip is the most productive. With the block per day being as low as it has been this past year, the prevalence of the 4-day trip is the natural result. Seeing nothing but 4 day lines in your bid packet is not so much a choice, but a last resort.
I mentioned last month that I was “cautiously optimistic” regarding our schedules moving into 2017.
I am upgrading that outlook to optimistic. See below.
Other News:
As a result of Envoy Crew Planning meeting with AAG Strategic Network Planning, many issues in the flight file are being corrected, which is great news. However, many of these changes will not be seen until after the Dec. 15 schedule change or in January. “Improvements” come in many forms, but here are some of the problem cites that should benefit:
ERJ: FWA, CAK, ROW, LRD, ORF, TRC, JAN, ALO, BMI, and GSO (in January)
CRJ: BNA and CID
175: IND, YUL, and YYC should see improvements in January.
These are pieces to the puzzle that do not represent the whole picture but are a considerable step in the right direction. Some of the benefits are already being seen in the December lines despite only going into effect in the second half of the month.
The Crew Planning Department is making a bit of a personnel shift with the ERJ planner stepping into a more forward looking role. When the rest of the planners are working on the January build, she will be looking as far ahead as March attempting to head off potential problems with the file and continue to seek improvements for Envoy. This will result in some shifting of responsibilities within the department and will no doubt come with some challenges in the spool up process. Regardless, it is refreshing to see the company attempt to “get ahead of the airplane” with the schedule and also for them to be afforded the opportunity to do so by AAG.
As always, your emails and input are welcome. Thank you to those that have reached out to us.
Wishing you an early Happy Thanksgiving!
11-22-2016, 10:00 AM
#5990
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2015
Posts: 667
For everyone complaining about the schedules, again I'll reference a letter from our own union scheduling committee sent out yesterday which says, "I mentioned last month that I was “cautiously optimistic” regarding our schedules moving into 2017.
I am upgrading that outlook to optimistic. See below."
Our own committee is optimistic that these atrocious schedules are being worked on and phased out by AAG and Envoy. The large pay increases were an immediate fix and improving the schedules is taking some time, but stop acting like things are hopeless here when clearly improvements are on the way.
Below is more excerpts from the letter:
I am upgrading that outlook to optimistic. See below."
Our own committee is optimistic that these atrocious schedules are being worked on and phased out by AAG and Envoy. The large pay increases were an immediate fix and improving the schedules is taking some time, but stop acting like things are hopeless here when clearly improvements are on the way.
Below is more excerpts from the letter:
What happens if we didn't come on here and complain, or call reps to *****, or tell the company how we feel, nothing would've happened then. Which technically hasn't happened, so after three years we're still complaining, and maybe the company will get to it.
Maybe they shouldn't have cut our pay to low, or maybe they shouldn't have given our schedules away with AC. Now they're paying more then they needed to, and having to fix schedules that they think are fine.
So yes, we will continue to complain, because nothing has changed. Usairways was a horrible company the day Parker took over, and that continued when he took over AA, what will change, probably Jan and Feb schedules, where flying is low, then back to crap by May.
For those that say Pedro is a cheerleader for this company.
He put people in Charge of the ramp, they cut levels, and ramp has been terrible ever since.
Pedro, put ric in place, what happened, flight operations fell apart.
Pedro, placed people in charge of scheduling, what happened, scheduling is Satan's pit.
Remember when Pedro said give me what I need and I'll get all pilots numbers at AA, how'd that go. Parker laughed his ass out of the office.
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