New Envoy Information
11-08-2016, 03:59 AM
#5741
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2016
Posts: 1,609
The company will be able to hire more than 40 per month. I wouldn't be surprised if they start hitting 50 a month.
The attrition in my opinion is more due to QOL issues than "believing" in the flow. If AAG provides us with a better fligh file, which is likely to happen in DFW since we are getting the 145s back from express jet, then we should be able to see some better schedules.
The attrition in my opinion is more due to QOL issues than "believing" in the flow. If AAG provides us with a better fligh file, which is likely to happen in DFW since we are getting the 145s back from express jet, then we should be able to see some better schedules.
11-08-2016, 04:31 AM
#5742
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2015
Posts: 416
Attrition at envoy is mostly to united, delta, or AA. I believe other regionals' attrition is mostly to LCC's with the occasional legacy. So if they get called for their dream job at another legacy, of course they're going to quit. Very very few are leaving for a LCC, however. That's a fact, based on a current line pilots perspective.
11-08-2016, 05:29 AM
#5743
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2013
Position: A320 FO
Posts: 501
And who made that choice? You didn't, I didn't? Then educate us all, why they are violating the contract? Just for fun? Because they can?
They do it because that's the way they make the operation work with all the inefficiency built into the operation. It is not the fault of the pilots, we were never at the wheel when the car spun out of control. We didn't come with threats of massive furloughs. We bargained IN GOOD FAITH during bankruptcy to get the necessary E175s ("very sweet fleet plan"), then later came for a second helping of concessions to hold the E175s hostage while closing two bases later. Where is the efficiency in that? Argue what you want, but corporate leadership here is non-existent. The regional operation is planned by a dart board. The improvements come at a trickle and are way behind the competition. My faith died with this place long ago when the second slap of concessions came after bankruptcy.
Take note for the new guys looking here. This IS the regional airline business model. They are just as bad as your elected congressman or woman. They will smile and tell you you're highly valued then later rip you off with your benefits and pay, keep you from your family for 22 days out of the month, and then tell you to be happy for what you got. Are you willing to put up with this for 6+ years? If so, great. If not, go back to school and do something else. Once you're in this, it's not easy to get into something else.
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11-08-2016, 05:41 AM
#5744
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2013
Position: A320 FO
Posts: 501
New Envoy Information
I get the occasional out and back JM, but if you take a multi leg multi day JM, then that's your fault. Refuse it, grow a set, or do all of you taking these illegal jm's let everyone walk all over you. 700 seems to think that's are perfectly fine because one day we'll be at AA, you sir are a ****ing joke.
Start refusing illegal jm's this pilot group is very weak, but I didn't know we were this weak.
Start refusing illegal jm's this pilot group is very weak, but I didn't know we were this weak.
My only thing that keeps me from declining JMs is the coding of UAs or coding/tracking them at all. Yes, the contract states that the company can't use them for disciplinary reasons. However, who says that, like history shows, the company reinterprets this and says that anyone with UAs in file can't flow? Who says that even if it clearly states in black and white that the company can't do that, they will? Many guys so close to flowing don't want to shoot themselves in the foot right now. That's my thought process on JMs and declining them. Note, the union sent an email warning about declining JMs. Gee, I wonder why?
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11-08-2016, 05:51 AM
#5745
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2013
Position: A320 FO
Posts: 501
There were 3093 pilots on the seniority list as of 10/2012, right before the bankruptcy filing. Today, there are right at 1800. That makes the number of pilots that left Envoy between the bankruptcy and today.........1293. Think about it. AMR/Eagle/AAG/Envoy ran off one thousand two hundred ninety three pilots.
Now, Envoy has cranked up the bonuses and gimmicks and are having to pay out big dollars in the HOPES of getting 40 plus new hires per month......just to operate the min number of airframes they currently have.
I believe the original plan was for a pilot group of around 1500. That changed with the environment and dwindling pilot supply. Suddenly, you are an asset and AAG/Envoy wants to put the brakes on the departures and keep that 1800. However, Envoy management still refuses to see you as such and the treatment, schedules and overall QOL are the worst that it has ever been.
If you have the chance, I highly recommend moving to any LCC or major. Anything that isn't sideways. It appears with the union posted attrition numbers, that many are still not buying the flow Envoy is selling.
Now, Envoy has cranked up the bonuses and gimmicks and are having to pay out big dollars in the HOPES of getting 40 plus new hires per month......just to operate the min number of airframes they currently have.
I believe the original plan was for a pilot group of around 1500. That changed with the environment and dwindling pilot supply. Suddenly, you are an asset and AAG/Envoy wants to put the brakes on the departures and keep that 1800. However, Envoy management still refuses to see you as such and the treatment, schedules and overall QOL are the worst that it has ever been.
If you have the chance, I highly recommend moving to any LCC or major. Anything that isn't sideways. It appears with the union posted attrition numbers, that many are still not buying the flow Envoy is selling.
Just saw that Envoy is offering a military helicopter transition program to get more bodies in class. The desperation is getting higher.
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11-08-2016, 05:59 AM
#5746
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2015
Posts: 540
11-08-2016, 06:04 AM
#5747
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2015
Posts: 540
And who made that choice? You didn't, I didn't? Then educate us all, why they are violating the contract? Just for fun? Because they can?
They do it because that's the way they make the operation work with all the inefficiency built into the operation. It is not the fault of the pilots, we were never at the wheel when the car spun out of control. We didn't come with threats of massive furloughs. We bargained IN GOOD FAITH during bankruptcy to get the necessary E175s ("very sweet fleet plan"), then later came for a second helping of concessions to hold the E175s hostage while closing two bases later. Where is the efficiency in that? Argue what you want, but corporate leadership here is non-existent. The regional operation is planned by a dart board. The improvements come at a trickle and are way behind the competition. My faith died with this place long ago when the second slap of concessions came after bankruptcy.
Take note for the new guys looking here. This IS the regional airline business model. They are just as bad as your elected congressman or woman. They will smile and tell you you're highly valued then later rip you off with your benefits and pay, keep you from your family for 22 days out of the month, and then tell you to be happy for what you got. Are you willing to put up with this for 6+ years? If so, great. If not, go back to school and do something else. Once you're in this, it's not easy to get into something else.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
They do it because that's the way they make the operation work with all the inefficiency built into the operation. It is not the fault of the pilots, we were never at the wheel when the car spun out of control. We didn't come with threats of massive furloughs. We bargained IN GOOD FAITH during bankruptcy to get the necessary E175s ("very sweet fleet plan"), then later came for a second helping of concessions to hold the E175s hostage while closing two bases later. Where is the efficiency in that? Argue what you want, but corporate leadership here is non-existent. The regional operation is planned by a dart board. The improvements come at a trickle and are way behind the competition. My faith died with this place long ago when the second slap of concessions came after bankruptcy.
Take note for the new guys looking here. This IS the regional airline business model. They are just as bad as your elected congressman or woman. They will smile and tell you you're highly valued then later rip you off with your benefits and pay, keep you from your family for 22 days out of the month, and then tell you to be happy for what you got. Are you willing to put up with this for 6+ years? If so, great. If not, go back to school and do something else. Once you're in this, it's not easy to get into something else.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
If you are close to flowing, within a year or two, you may do better trying to wait it out. If you are outside that window, I wouldn't count on that flow getting you to AA and you might consider one of the LCC's as well. Good luck.
11-08-2016, 07:51 AM
#5748
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2015
Posts: 667
My only thing that keeps me from declining JMs is the coding of UAs or coding/tracking them at all. Yes, the contract states that the company can't use them for disciplinary reasons. However, who says that, like history shows, the company reinterprets this and says that anyone with UAs in file can't flow? Who says that even if it clearly states in black and white that the company can't do that, they will? Many guys so close to flowing don't want to shoot themselves in the foot right now. That's my thought process on JMs and declining them. Note, the union sent an email warning about declining JMs. Gee, I wonder why?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Eventually aa will do this to also as aa will all be envoy. Aa pilots will say then we have it good let's not rock the boat.
11-08-2016, 07:53 AM
#5749
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2016
Posts: 290
I would ignore this condescending management shill. Kudos to you for doing your level best to protect your career. Don't rule out an LCC. I left for one and my QOL has drastically improved along with my paycheck. I can sit here comfortably for as long as necessary to get the legacy call. Or, I can just decide to stay here. Apps are out and I'm just waiting. With the hiring numbers over the next 5 years, I feel like I have a good shot. About to add Airbus PIC to my resume very soon so that opens up China if I decide to go that route. Worst case, I stay here and keep good QOL and pay.
If you are close to flowing, within a year or two, you may do better trying to wait it out. If you are outside that window, I wouldn't count on that flow getting you to AA and you might consider one of the LCC's as well. Good luck.
If you are close to flowing, within a year or two, you may do better trying to wait it out. If you are outside that window, I wouldn't count on that flow getting you to AA and you might consider one of the LCC's as well. Good luck.
Are you regretting your decision to leave even more now? I bet you are. The only place that would hire you was the Mesa of LCC's which is a dead end career to nowhere.
Seriously, you don't even work here! Why don't you go on with your pathetic life and forget about what you gave up? I know you said your apps were out but there is no way any major or legacy carrier will pick you up. For that matter, Spirit or Jetblue wouldn't even take you. You gave up the only path to a major you would ever have and now you are out there throwing rocks at Envoy because you are desperately trying to get on with a major and you've totally blown it. You know Envoy wouldn't even hire you. You probably just slipped through the cracks last time and got very lucky.
Stop coming into this thread and spreading your propaganda and lies! Life goes on and it's good for those of us who have a guaranteed career track with the largest airline in the world.
11-08-2016, 08:01 AM
#5750
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2015
Position: CA
Posts: 83
To my knowledge, this has been effective for at least a month, and in the works for at least 3 or 4 more. One of the five in my interview class is in this boat. They have significantly reduced minimums and can transfer a fair portion of their military rotor time. Still a long road for them as they have to go back and get all their ratings in fixed wing, but it does seem a bit desperate.
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