Bigpimppilot

Hahahahahahaha. Why wouldn't an 8 yr 145 Fo take the 175 upgrade first?

Eaglepilot84

Current upgrade is 8 years. If you're new to this industry, then a piece of advise I have for you is to not put ANY stock in what the current upgrade time is. With our attrition and fleet plans the way they stand, the upgrade time is predicted to drop to 2.5 years.

Management definetly jumped the gun on the whole 2.5 year upgrade/6 year flow to AA last year. My opinion is that for someone hired TODAY, those numbers will prove true (or at the very least, close to it.)

PilotCrusader

Based off what? That warm fuzzy in your panties?

Ric said 2 and 6 over a year ago. Then he changed it to 2.5 and 6. Now he says 2.5 and 6 from NOW. So let's all believe Ric. Again. And Again. (Face-palm)

Rmk1991

Not new to the industry at all. Just had some old friends starting at envoy bragging about how the upgrade on the 175 is going to be way less because apparently FOs cannot switch to the 175? It was something ridiculous like that and I just wanted to hear from someone who's been here more than a week. You think if someone were to get hired right now they'd upgrade in 2 though? How do you figure?

SkyWago

I don't know what they are telling you but FO's can't bid jet to jet only displace from aircraft or Proffer to displace. You can upgrade on whatever you want when there is an opening.

I think a lot of guys are DFW based guys, like myself, that don't want anything to do with the 175 due to what happened to the CRJ when it started here. Dallas base to start then shifted to ORD and guys then having to commute that were sitting pretty living in base.

Hard to say but that would be one of my guesses on why several people might not want to go.

highflyer1980

Remember, commuting is a choice. Just like I have a choice to see my kids at most two days a week.

Eaglepilot84

Figure we have about 2000 pilots and upgrade is around seniority number 1200. That's 800 in front of the most junior guy. Between the flow to AA plus outside attrition, let's put the number of the captain spots at 25/month, which is on the low end in my opinion. 800/25 equals 32 months. So I would say 2-3 year upgrade time, which I think is a good time frame for one to upgrade in. Quick math, but you get the idea.

Shiner

They've got it wrong. They won't upgrade sooner because they're on the 175.

However, what they were probably excited about is moving up quickly in relative seniority. If they can staff the 175 with newhires, they won't need to displace current FO's over to it. Newhires would then hold lines, weekends off, good vacations, while current FO's stuck on the 145 wait for the upgrade with longer reserve and worse schedules.

RyanP

In 2 years we certainly shouldn't have any involuntary 8yr FO's anymore.

In 2 years we will have lost around 500-550 more CA's due to flow and attrition. (Being conservative). Say only 100 more flow later this year. Only 300 flow next year, not 360. Only 75 flow in the first 4 months of 2018. Numbers could be quite a bit higher if the actual projected amount flow. Plus 3 to 4 a month of Captains are consistantly leaving to other places. So thats another 70-80 Ca's gone over the next 2 years. Not to mention senior FO's leaving as well over that time period.

The next big vacancy award after this 10 upgrades, should jump to 2010 hires for upgrade. They were claiming 110 more upgrades this year. Now today they just announced 3 more aircraft coming back. Thats 15 more CA slots than previously planned now.

2010 will go quick through upgrades, 2011 will take a while, then it will jump to 2013 because there is only 8 people in 2012. After that there is not many pilots at all on the list. In 2 years from now 2014 guys should be getting CA upgrades. After them, there is not a lot of pilots to go through at all for someone hired today. We have 28 new hires for April. Now we need to maintain 20+/month new hires. Once people start to realize things are changing here, and they are, we will hopefully be able to do that. They might need to throw more money at the FO's in the future to get them and hopefully they do.

# of FO's each year to get through for upgrade:
2010-103
2011-293
2012-8
2013-72
2014-64
2015-110
2016-72

Smutter

Not true, upgrade is at 2007 right now. And why would you care if it's on the 175 145 or crj-700