AdiosMikeFox

Contractually, if they furlough they MUST increase the flow. Parking aircraft is irrelevant, there is no language that allows them to withhold any more than flowing the minimums required.

Could they if they wanted to? Sure, but cue a big stack of grievances and probably a few lawsuits.

sublime259

So let me get this straight...you are completely clueless as to how envoy's flow works yet continue to cast stones at it?

There are countless posts on APC that explain in detail how flow over here works. Go fetch.

eaglefly

It's all speculation which means little to a pilot hired at Envoy today, so don't be dazzled by the psychobabble of circus tent hucksters. As an example, AA may not even maintain its present size over the next 6 years so if X pilots retire at AA, that does NOT mean "half of those guys will be replaced by Envoy captains ensuring that the upgrade will continue to drop" in any quantifiable time frame when talking about Envoy flow or upgrade. If Envoy cannot lure in enough new-hires to match attrition, it too shrinks impacting upgrade schedule, so that is another variable that only is quantifiable as a present snapshot.

A more rewarding line at this circus is the one for cotton candy vs. the "step right up folks and win a stuffed toy" game you're hearing now. Envoy is a crap shoot, not a guaranteed payoff and THAT is the ONLY guarantee.

FlameNSky

No its not, its contractual. Unless you think by some miracle of science and legislation, AA won't be retiring around 700 pilots a year for the next two decades. You being one of them.

FlameNSky

According to your logic, whether or not it drops to 33% or not is pure speculation and shouldn't be discussed.

HobGoblin

824 Flow Through

x Upon delivery of the first EMB-175 50% of all AA new hire training slots, no fewer than 30 per month (subject to the 50%), shall go to Envoy pilots until a total of 824 Envoy pilots have flowed through to AA.

“Protected Pilots” Hired By Envoy On or Before October 11, 2011

x Upon delivery of the 40th EMB-175 50% of all AA new hire training slots, no fewer than 25 per month (subject to the 50%), shall go to such Envoy pilots, until the next pilot to be offered a flow through opportunity was hired after October 11, 2011.

Pilots Hired By Envoy After October 11, 2011

x At the point in time when the first pilot hired after October 11, 2011 is offered a flow through opportunity, if AA is hiring pilots, 35% of all AA new hire training slots, no fewer than 15 per month (subject to the 35%), shall go to Envoy pilots.

Pilots Hired After DOS

x The lesser of (a) 25% of all AA new hire training slots in that calendar year, or (b) five new hire training slots (increased by one for every 125 pilots above the base number of 480 on the Envoy master seniority list) times (“x”) the number of calendar months in that calendar year in which AA actually hired pilots, shall go to Envoy pilots.

Envoy Envious

Exactly. It's contractual and 50% of the classes HAVE to be Envoy pilots. We are essentially AA pilots to begin with, it's just a matter of transferring over to the other side. Some on here can't seem to get that AAG has to flow, HAS to contractually. 50% of the AA classes.

Envoy Envious

We have a 2.5 year upgrade and a 6 year flow. It's a fact. Refute it if you can. But you know it's impossible.

eaglefly

Tomorrow you may not as no one can guarantee that.

No one. That is what a new-hire at Envoy today needs to understand.....and also that AA will not be retiring 700 pilots/year this year or next. I believe the numbers are substantially less, but I'd LOVE to move up 1400 numbers in the next two years.

whacka-whacka-whacka-whacka-whacka.........

sublime259

I'm not sure who this guy is (although I kinda think it's eaglefly just arguing with himself!) but he's the only one on here saying that 2.5 yr upgrade and 6 year flow is fact. It's a projection. That being said, as much as we all love to hate AAG and not believe what they say, this projection is well on it's way to reality.

So for all you potential new-hires considering PSA with the possible chance you may make it to AA, do your homework. If you want to go to DAL or UAL, do your homework. Those who are getting calls at the other big 2 are well more qualified then PSA will ever get you in the next 6 years (plus they don't have that giant blackmark on their resume that says "PSA.") If you want a future at a LCC, knock yourself out.

Personally? I'm content hanging around here for a little bit and then spending the next 30+ years at the largest airline in the world.