New Envoy Information
02-20-2016, 10:09 AM
#1281
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2015
Posts: 667
I'll disagree with you. First, we have a new aircraft coming online which will eventually be the backbone of our airline. Comair had no such situation. Second we have the new ETC building. Comair was downsizing their real estate before shutdown. Third AAG has been relying heavily on envoy middle management to produce programs that are then rolled out the two other WO's.(EFB program, ADS B, recruiting and the cadet program and several others). Basically our guys do the heavy lifting then present it to AAG and they then turn it over to PDT and PSA to implement. Comair was not leading any other WO's.
As shaky as we have been the other WO's are on shakier ground than us. PDT has had much difficulty with their EMB program and PSA is having serious issues recently with recruiting. From my viewpoint all three are hurting if not in more serious trouble but my opinion doesn't count. AAG's does and it's their business to run as they choose.
As shaky as we have been the other WO's are on shakier ground than us. PDT has had much difficulty with their EMB program and PSA is having serious issues recently with recruiting. From my viewpoint all three are hurting if not in more serious trouble but my opinion doesn't count. AAG's does and it's their business to run as they choose.
02-20-2016, 11:42 AM
#1284
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2013
Position: A320 FO
Posts: 501
"Bashing" Envoy isn't my goal. I'd love to promote it, but the fact is the claims made simply don't hold water. On top of that it's obvious most there feel they are being played for idiots, at least that's the message I get. You're asking people to disregard opinions based on factual information and blindly believe optimistic promises from people who have arguably established an abysmal record of trust and that simply isn't realistic.
Sure, Envoy will continue to get some pilots, but if they are hanging their hats on these promises and projections, I think it clear they will be as disappointed in the future as the current crop are in the present. You have the power to maximize Envoy's future, but a complete philosophical change regarding your pilots as assets instead of manipulatable liabilities is required.
I think you're getting to the fork in the road of either stepping up to the plate or leaving the ballpark for use by more successful teams.
Sure, Envoy will continue to get some pilots, but if they are hanging their hats on these promises and projections, I think it clear they will be as disappointed in the future as the current crop are in the present. You have the power to maximize Envoy's future, but a complete philosophical change regarding your pilots as assets instead of manipulatable liabilities is required.
I think you're getting to the fork in the road of either stepping up to the plate or leaving the ballpark for use by more successful teams.
Agreed. Maybe if management made their plans and actually did what they said they were going to do, I believe our tones would be singing a different tune.
I find it humorous that people like CR700 just expect the pilots here to be okay with what has happened. Forget about the pilots who have waited 16+ years to flow. Who cares they are only 8 days at home. Who cares about the schedules. Never mind the professionals who bring the customers home safe and the ones who are away from home for every single holiday in the year. Is it just me or is Ric's thank you letters starting to become a thorn in our sides.
You want to really be thankful, Ric? Then do something the pilots would really appreciate.
<Mic drop>
02-20-2016, 12:02 PM
#1285
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 101
I'm just trying to help answer the new hires question on here a few pages back. He was concerned about the viability of the 2 1/2 year upgrade and 6 year flow.
I'm just trying to allay those concerns. For some detractors, Envoy will never be good enough. That is until they are sitting in the right seat of some contractor regional as they see their Envoy buddies moving over to AA one after the other.
It's been beat to death here but the math and projections put out by the company actually work. Do you think they would actually advertise a 2 1/2 year upgrade and 6 year flow to AA if it weren't actually the case.
It's also my understanding that the lack of new hires is simply a case of many not making it through the interview. It's an AA interview after all as it will be your last interview before you retire. Obviously, the new hire poster a few pages back is AA material so he need not worry.
I would say to the new hire. Big things are happening here and it's moving fast. Be glad that you got on when you did as your ticket to an AA jet in under 6 years has already been punched.
I'm just trying to allay those concerns. For some detractors, Envoy will never be good enough. That is until they are sitting in the right seat of some contractor regional as they see their Envoy buddies moving over to AA one after the other.
It's been beat to death here but the math and projections put out by the company actually work. Do you think they would actually advertise a 2 1/2 year upgrade and 6 year flow to AA if it weren't actually the case.
It's also my understanding that the lack of new hires is simply a case of many not making it through the interview. It's an AA interview after all as it will be your last interview before you retire. Obviously, the new hire poster a few pages back is AA material so he need not worry.
I would say to the new hire. Big things are happening here and it's moving fast. Be glad that you got on when you did as your ticket to an AA jet in under 6 years has already been punched.
02-20-2016, 12:20 PM
#1286
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2013
Posts: 276
Let me be really honest with all of the Envoy pilots here. Bashing the company is going to do nothing, zero, to help you out of the "situation you feel you are in." Helping your understanding of the company's reasoning and calculations by explaining it in detail is something I've tried to do here but it appears to have gone over your heads. Keep in mind that I've flown the line and understand what it means to be a line pilot so I've tried to explain it in a way that's easily understood.
You can get on board and ride Envoy right into AA or you can bash and be miserable. Better yet, why not make that lateral move to JetBlue, Spirit or Virgin. If you are that big a detractor, we don't need you here. We WILL continue to get new hires. There are many out there who would be happy to embark on their AA career at Envoy.
For those of you interested in coming to Envoy, I'll be happy to answer your questions here. Just ignore the trolls.
You can get on board and ride Envoy right into AA or you can bash and be miserable. Better yet, why not make that lateral move to JetBlue, Spirit or Virgin. If you are that big a detractor, we don't need you here. We WILL continue to get new hires. There are many out there who would be happy to embark on their AA career at Envoy.
For those of you interested in coming to Envoy, I'll be happy to answer your questions here. Just ignore the trolls.
I quit eagle because most of the management team sucks. Not the CPO always, but Rick Wilson has destroyed the airline.
I could write a book about all the shameful things at envoy!
Now, the latest... ILLEGAL PILOT PUSHING TO FLY un-airworthy airplanes.
It keeps getting worse, Rick.
You should quit... The airline would improve in five minutes. And take Jane Easton with you.
02-20-2016, 12:28 PM
#1287
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,054
Let me be really honest with all of the Envoy pilots here. Bashing the company is going to do nothing, zero, to help you out of the "situation you feel you are in." Helping your understanding of the company's reasoning and calculations by explaining it in detail is something I've tried to do here but it appears to have gone over your heads. Keep in mind that I've flown the line and understand what it means to be a line pilot so I've tried to explain it in a way that's easily understood.
You can get on board and ride Envoy right into AA or you can bash and be miserable. Better yet, why not make that lateral move to JetBlue, Spirit or Virgin. If you are that big a detractor, we don't need you here. We WILL continue to get new hires. There are many out there who would be happy to embark on their AA career at Envoy.
For those of you interested in coming to Envoy, I'll be happy to answer your questions here. Just ignore the trolls.
You can get on board and ride Envoy right into AA or you can bash and be miserable. Better yet, why not make that lateral move to JetBlue, Spirit or Virgin. If you are that big a detractor, we don't need you here. We WILL continue to get new hires. There are many out there who would be happy to embark on their AA career at Envoy.
For those of you interested in coming to Envoy, I'll be happy to answer your questions here. Just ignore the trolls.
So Envoy management is now so concerned about what goes down on social media that they have tricky Dic running interference. Good stuff.
As someone who has been here likely even longer than you, and has flown the line the majority of that time, let me echo the sentiment of the other people concerned for others and not just keeping their well nourished butts in a nice cushy office job away from the line:
- Things are worse here at Envoy/Eagle than they have ever been.
- The schedules are the worst they have ever been, times ten! While other regionals are enjoying 16-17+ day off schedules, a senior guy like myself is getting 13-14. A middle of the ground CA or FO is getting a max of 11-12. This is absolutely ridiculous. I know you hope to pull the wool over a prospective new hires head with he glamour and glitz of flow, but this so the dirty truth.
- FOs and Junior CAs have been sitting reserve for YEARS. Other regionals are upgrading their FOs to CA in less time than our guys sit reserve.
- The flow didn't work before. Now management lackeys, like yourself, claim that a new hire will upgrade in 2.4 years and flow in 6. I invite anyone to check out Charliebucket.org to see the truth behind that giant lie.
I'd love to see this envoy grow. As a senior guy, that would be best for ME. Unlike some sniveling little desk jockey trying to lie to the world to save his own butt, I have compassion and empathy. The fact you don't is the glaringly worst reason to come to envoy: management could care less about ANYTHING but their own hineys.
There are far better options than envoy right now.
For our current FOs thinking about what you call a "lateral move" to Spirit, Frontier, JetBlue, Alaska, Southwest......DO IT. This numbskull management guy just showed you his hand by calling it a "lateral move". No one on their right mind would consider a move from a regional to a major a lateral move. Go get time in a 73 or Bus. Make more 2nd year than as a new Captain at a hole like envoy. I'll guarantee you make a legacy faster than the smoke and mirrors flow through envoy is offering too.
02-20-2016, 12:44 PM
#1289
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,054
Is that who you mean?
02-20-2016, 01:03 PM
#1290
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2015
Posts: 687
There's a reason why this "management" guy doesn't have the ability to get you guys any actual numbers and can only express feelings. Sam has been saying similar things for many months. If they like us we will do better in the end.
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