New Envoy Information
02-19-2016, 05:20 AM
#1231
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2007
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 338
"Pay no attention to the man behind the screen!"
Seriously??
1)Do you dispute the 43 upgrades/mth in order for Charlie to upgrade?
A)Do YOU feel that is feasible given Training Dept capacity?
B)Do YOU feel that is feasible given current staffing and new hire #s?
Seriously??
A)Do YOU feel that is feasible given Training Dept capacity?
B)Do YOU feel that is feasible given current staffing and new hire #s?
02-19-2016, 05:34 AM
#1232
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Hack pilot
Posts: 216
2.5 year to upgrade, believe it when you see it people. Let them take their 2.5/6, nominal sign on bonus and stick it up their a**.
Did I mention they have the two most attractive pilot bases? Who wouldn't want to commute to DFW or ORD on a day off with the awful schedules.
So glad I left when I did.
A passes would be a nominal start, I can't even believe they have recruiters spreading this garbage.
Did I mention they have the two most attractive pilot bases? Who wouldn't want to commute to DFW or ORD on a day off with the awful schedules.
So glad I left when I did.
A passes would be a nominal start, I can't even believe they have recruiters spreading this garbage.
02-19-2016, 05:44 AM
#1233
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
So what if I'm at a desk most of the time? I've got no problem admitting it. I'm still on the seniority list and that's what matters.
Where's the bastion of support that I used to see on here in this thread? In fact, that's why I finally started posting instead of just reading. To turn away these unwarranted incendiary attacks on Envoy. Do you want to flow or not? Well, we do need new hires. That's a fact. We are getting them like everyone else, maybe a few more than others, but we still need them. Why turn them away with baseless accusations about what YOU perceive to be the truth here.
The facts is, there is no other regional that has the type of flow that Envoy has. We are far and away at the top of regionals in terms of percentages of flowing pilots. How is that a bad thing? Add to that the upgrade time that will be dropping rapidly very soon. The 2.5/6 is not just some baloney numbers pulled out of the air. These were calculated over a period of time by Envoy management and it's shown already that it's going to work. These are all based on projections that were created between Envoy and AAG. And that's just with the flow working as we speak. How about that fact?
Upgrades are about to drop rapidly. Forget about your Charlie Bucket. That's union propaganda. I'm not saying overall that the union is bad, it's just that they have their own agenda when running THEIR numbers.
As for work rules. Yes, Envoy has nearly the best in the regional industry. Maybe the reserve rules could use some tweaking, but overall I can't see what the problem is regarding complaining about the work rules in general.
As for the schedules. The schedules are given to us by AAG and we have to make them work. It's really a lack of mid day flying that contributes to many of the lines built in the current fashion. It's just where we are right now. They may not be perfect, but seriously, are they really that bad? It's a fact that every month someone will post that the schedules are the worst they've ever seen. Give me a break. As far as the non commutable ends of the trip, you have company paid hotels! What more do you want? Room service delivered to your room on the company dime?
I would stress again......patience. It's taking some time for the overall company plan to come together but Envoy is a major player and is already a great regional with a robust flow, but as things continue to improve, will be THE premier regional. This, along with the flow is what will bring new hires to our doors.
Where's the bastion of support that I used to see on here in this thread? In fact, that's why I finally started posting instead of just reading. To turn away these unwarranted incendiary attacks on Envoy. Do you want to flow or not? Well, we do need new hires. That's a fact. We are getting them like everyone else, maybe a few more than others, but we still need them. Why turn them away with baseless accusations about what YOU perceive to be the truth here.
The facts is, there is no other regional that has the type of flow that Envoy has. We are far and away at the top of regionals in terms of percentages of flowing pilots. How is that a bad thing? Add to that the upgrade time that will be dropping rapidly very soon. The 2.5/6 is not just some baloney numbers pulled out of the air. These were calculated over a period of time by Envoy management and it's shown already that it's going to work. These are all based on projections that were created between Envoy and AAG. And that's just with the flow working as we speak. How about that fact?
Upgrades are about to drop rapidly. Forget about your Charlie Bucket. That's union propaganda. I'm not saying overall that the union is bad, it's just that they have their own agenda when running THEIR numbers.
As for work rules. Yes, Envoy has nearly the best in the regional industry. Maybe the reserve rules could use some tweaking, but overall I can't see what the problem is regarding complaining about the work rules in general.
As for the schedules. The schedules are given to us by AAG and we have to make them work. It's really a lack of mid day flying that contributes to many of the lines built in the current fashion. It's just where we are right now. They may not be perfect, but seriously, are they really that bad? It's a fact that every month someone will post that the schedules are the worst they've ever seen. Give me a break. As far as the non commutable ends of the trip, you have company paid hotels! What more do you want? Room service delivered to your room on the company dime?
I would stress again......patience. It's taking some time for the overall company plan to come together but Envoy is a major player and is already a great regional with a robust flow, but as things continue to improve, will be THE premier regional. This, along with the flow is what will bring new hires to our doors.
02-19-2016, 06:03 AM
#1234
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2012
Posts: 299
So what if I'm at a desk most of the time? I've got no problem admitting it. I'm still on the seniority list and that's what matters.
Where's the bastion of support that I used to see on here in this thread? In fact, that's why I finally started posting instead of just reading. To turn away these unwarranted incendiary attacks on Envoy. Do you want to flow or not? Well, we do need new hires. That's a fact. We are getting them like everyone else, maybe a few more than others, but we still need them. Why turn them away with baseless accusations about what YOU perceive to be the truth here.
The facts is, there is no other regional that has the type of flow that Envoy has. We are far and away at the top of regionals in terms of percentages of flowing pilots. How is that a bad thing? Add to that the upgrade time that will be dropping rapidly very soon. The 2.5/6 is not just some baloney numbers pulled out of the air. These were calculated over a period of time by Envoy management and it's shown already that it's going to work. These are all based on projections that were created between Envoy and AAG. And that's just with the flow working as we speak. How about that fact?
Upgrades are about to drop rapidly. Forget about your Charlie Bucket. That's union propaganda. I'm not saying overall that the union is bad, it's just that they have their own agenda when running THEIR numbers.
As for work rules. Yes, Envoy has nearly the best in the regional industry. Maybe the reserve rules could use some tweaking, but overall I can't see what the problem is regarding complaining about the work rules in general.
As for the schedules. The schedules are given to us by AAG and we have to make them work. It's really a lack of mid day flying that contributes to many of the lines built in the current fashion. It's just where we are right now. They may not be perfect, but seriously, are they really that bad? It's a fact that every month someone will post that the schedules are the worst they've ever seen. Give me a break. As far as the non commutable ends of the trip, you have company paid hotels! What more do you want? Room service delivered to your room on the company dime?
I would stress again......patience. It's taking some time for the overall company plan to come together but Envoy is a major player and is already a great regional with a robust flow, but as things continue to improve, will be THE premier regional. This, along with the flow is what will bring new hires to our doors.
Where's the bastion of support that I used to see on here in this thread? In fact, that's why I finally started posting instead of just reading. To turn away these unwarranted incendiary attacks on Envoy. Do you want to flow or not? Well, we do need new hires. That's a fact. We are getting them like everyone else, maybe a few more than others, but we still need them. Why turn them away with baseless accusations about what YOU perceive to be the truth here.
The facts is, there is no other regional that has the type of flow that Envoy has. We are far and away at the top of regionals in terms of percentages of flowing pilots. How is that a bad thing? Add to that the upgrade time that will be dropping rapidly very soon. The 2.5/6 is not just some baloney numbers pulled out of the air. These were calculated over a period of time by Envoy management and it's shown already that it's going to work. These are all based on projections that were created between Envoy and AAG. And that's just with the flow working as we speak. How about that fact?
Upgrades are about to drop rapidly. Forget about your Charlie Bucket. That's union propaganda. I'm not saying overall that the union is bad, it's just that they have their own agenda when running THEIR numbers.
As for work rules. Yes, Envoy has nearly the best in the regional industry. Maybe the reserve rules could use some tweaking, but overall I can't see what the problem is regarding complaining about the work rules in general.
As for the schedules. The schedules are given to us by AAG and we have to make them work. It's really a lack of mid day flying that contributes to many of the lines built in the current fashion. It's just where we are right now. They may not be perfect, but seriously, are they really that bad? It's a fact that every month someone will post that the schedules are the worst they've ever seen. Give me a break. As far as the non commutable ends of the trip, you have company paid hotels! What more do you want? Room service delivered to your room on the company dime?
I would stress again......patience. It's taking some time for the overall company plan to come together but Envoy is a major player and is already a great regional with a robust flow, but as things continue to improve, will be THE premier regional. This, along with the flow is what will bring new hires to our doors.
And don't tell me that people on here are causing pilots to go else where. I'm not buying that line. The company has many ways to improve hiring and has often chosen opposite.
People are tired of the company's wait it out line. It's going to get better next month/year. We are tired of waiting with no tangible signs of improvement. Two years since part 117 and the company still can't come to an agreement on the reserve contract.
Why would pilots advocate other people to come here when the company has shown so much disregard for its own pilots?
02-19-2016, 06:06 AM
#1235
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2012
Posts: 299
Remember keep it short. No one likes your overly long replies.
02-19-2016, 06:14 AM
#1236
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2015
Posts: 667
So what if I'm at a desk most of the time? I've got no problem admitting it. I'm still on the seniority list and that's what matters.
Where's the bastion of support that I used to see on here in this thread? In fact, that's why I finally started posting instead of just reading. To turn away these unwarranted incendiary attacks on Envoy. Do you want to flow or not? Well, we do need new hires. That's a fact. We are getting them like everyone else, maybe a few more than others, but we still need them. Why turn them away with baseless accusations about what YOU perceive to be the truth here.
The facts is, there is no other regional that has the type of flow that Envoy has. We are far and away at the top of regionals in terms of percentages of flowing pilots. How is that a bad thing? Add to that the upgrade time that will be dropping rapidly very soon. The 2.5/6 is not just some baloney numbers pulled out of the air. These were calculated over a period of time by Envoy management and it's shown already that it's going to work. These are all based on projections that were created between Envoy and AAG. And that's just with the flow working as we speak. How about that fact?
Upgrades are about to drop rapidly. Forget about your Charlie Bucket. That's union propaganda. I'm not saying overall that the union is bad, it's just that they have their own agenda when running THEIR numbers.
As for work rules. Yes, Envoy has nearly the best in the regional industry. Maybe the reserve rules could use some tweaking, but overall I can't see what the problem is regarding complaining about the work rules in general.
As for the schedules. The schedules are given to us by AAG and we have to make them work. It's really a lack of mid day flying that contributes to many of the lines built in the current fashion. It's just where we are right now. They may not be perfect, but seriously, are they really that bad? It's a fact that every month someone will post that the schedules are the worst they've ever seen. Give me a break. As far as the non commutable ends of the trip, you have company paid hotels! What more do you want? Room service delivered to your room on the company dime?
I would stress again......patience. It's taking some time for the overall company plan to come together but Envoy is a major player and is already a great regional with a robust flow, but as things continue to improve, will be THE premier regional. This, along with the flow is what will bring new hires to our doors.
Where's the bastion of support that I used to see on here in this thread? In fact, that's why I finally started posting instead of just reading. To turn away these unwarranted incendiary attacks on Envoy. Do you want to flow or not? Well, we do need new hires. That's a fact. We are getting them like everyone else, maybe a few more than others, but we still need them. Why turn them away with baseless accusations about what YOU perceive to be the truth here.
The facts is, there is no other regional that has the type of flow that Envoy has. We are far and away at the top of regionals in terms of percentages of flowing pilots. How is that a bad thing? Add to that the upgrade time that will be dropping rapidly very soon. The 2.5/6 is not just some baloney numbers pulled out of the air. These were calculated over a period of time by Envoy management and it's shown already that it's going to work. These are all based on projections that were created between Envoy and AAG. And that's just with the flow working as we speak. How about that fact?
Upgrades are about to drop rapidly. Forget about your Charlie Bucket. That's union propaganda. I'm not saying overall that the union is bad, it's just that they have their own agenda when running THEIR numbers.
As for work rules. Yes, Envoy has nearly the best in the regional industry. Maybe the reserve rules could use some tweaking, but overall I can't see what the problem is regarding complaining about the work rules in general.
As for the schedules. The schedules are given to us by AAG and we have to make them work. It's really a lack of mid day flying that contributes to many of the lines built in the current fashion. It's just where we are right now. They may not be perfect, but seriously, are they really that bad? It's a fact that every month someone will post that the schedules are the worst they've ever seen. Give me a break. As far as the non commutable ends of the trip, you have company paid hotels! What more do you want? Room service delivered to your room on the company dime?
I would stress again......patience. It's taking some time for the overall company plan to come together but Envoy is a major player and is already a great regional with a robust flow, but as things continue to improve, will be THE premier regional. This, along with the flow is what will bring new hires to our doors.
Schedule's; March is the worst I have seen in 11 years. 12 days off at 75 hrs is the average.
Management; terrible. Ric is a perfect example of a pilot thinking he can do everyone's job. Pedro is in lala land.
Upgrades and flow; I think we can all agree 2.5/6 is out the door. We would've had to been upgrading rapidly for a while now. If they put an upgrade out right now, those pilots would not be in training till June July at earliest.
We were told that March would provide for a significant increase in block hours. Once again we were lied to. 9 900's went to Mesa and so did all those block hours. The envoy hangar on the west side of dfw is now going to be used by Mesa and not envoy.
Did I hear correctly that we are going to be done with Aspen flying (been off for a while) flying went to skywest.
Why the hell would a new hire come here.
- management hates us and treats us accordingly.
-WE ARE BEING DWINDLED DOWN.
- Losing most of our fleet.
- Management keeps lying to retain pilots and attract the few stupid new hires that think it will work out in the end
02-19-2016, 06:23 AM
#1237
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
It's really a bad sell when you say patience. We are tired of patience. There are so many things the company can do right now and has failed to do them for the past year. Bring back CDO lines, stop rewriting the reserve rules for pre assigned RAP, STOP calling me at midnight, and last but not least hire more pilots so I can get off reserve. Being at the bottom of the reserve list for almost two years is insane. Granted it's not bad now but summer months are terrible. If you commute on reserve it's almost unbearable with this company.
And don't tell me that people on here are causing pilots to go else where. I'm not buying that line. The company has many ways to improve hiring and has often chosen opposite.
People are tired of the company's wait it out line. It's going to get better next month/year. We are tired of waiting with no tangible signs of improvement. Two years since part 117 and the company still can't come to an agreement on the reserve contract.
Why would pilots advocate other people to come here when the company has shown so much disregard for its own pilots?
And don't tell me that people on here are causing pilots to go else where. I'm not buying that line. The company has many ways to improve hiring and has often chosen opposite.
People are tired of the company's wait it out line. It's going to get better next month/year. We are tired of waiting with no tangible signs of improvement. Two years since part 117 and the company still can't come to an agreement on the reserve contract.
Why would pilots advocate other people to come here when the company has shown so much disregard for its own pilots?
02-19-2016, 08:53 AM
#1238
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2016
Posts: 290
You want numbers? Well, here you go. AA is projecting to hire 750 this year. That will be 375 flows for 2016. For 2017, as of now, they are also projecting 750 hires. So, guess what? Another 375 flows. That's 750 flows between January 1, 2016 and December 31, 2017. We are right around 1900 pilots now. Do some basic math and that leaves you with 1150 pilots. So, we will have to hire 750 pilots between today and year end 2017. Actually maybe a bit less due to us settling in around the 1800 pilot mark.
We already know that the top 300 guys here aren't going anywhere. So, by the end of 2017, seniority number 1050 should be flowing or very close to flowing over. Someone in that seniority range was hired mid 2007. So that says to me with around 950 CA's needed, today's seniority 1950 will be close to upgrade at the end of 2017/beginning of 2018. Guess when #1950 was hired? Early 2014. So, essentially it's right there at the 2.5 year upgrade mark. The company has used this formula intertwined with staffing models and aircraft deliveries/parking, etc. Plus, we should be getting some 145's back from TSA and XJT when they go in for heavy checks.
Sixth grade basic math should bring you to the same conclusion. But I know you like to bash Envoy, so go ahead. You asked for the numbers and there they are. Black and white.
02-19-2016, 09:01 AM
#1239
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Position: Violin on the Envoy-tanic
Posts: 175
So what if I'm at a desk most of the time? I've got no problem admitting it. I'm still on the seniority list and that's what matters.
Where's the bastion of support that I used to see on here in this thread? In fact, that's why I finally started posting instead of just reading. To turn away these unwarranted incendiary attacks on Envoy. Do you want to flow or not? Well, we do need new hires. That's a fact. We are getting them like everyone else, maybe a few more than others, but we still need them. Why turn them away with baseless accusations about what YOU perceive to be the truth here.
Where's the bastion of support that I used to see on here in this thread? In fact, that's why I finally started posting instead of just reading. To turn away these unwarranted incendiary attacks on Envoy. Do you want to flow or not? Well, we do need new hires. That's a fact. We are getting them like everyone else, maybe a few more than others, but we still need them. Why turn them away with baseless accusations about what YOU perceive to be the truth here.
The facts is, there is no other regional that has the type of flow that Envoy has. We are far and away at the top of regionals in terms of percentages of flowing pilots. How is that a bad thing?
Add to that the upgrade time that will be dropping rapidly very soon. The 2.5/6 is not just some baloney numbers pulled out of the air. These were calculated over a period of time by Envoy management and it's shown already that it's going to work. These are all based on projections that were created between Envoy and AAG. And that's just with the flow working as we speak. How about that fact?
Oh, and while we're at it, let's remember that a few years ago, there were 3,200 pilots on our seniority list. The ones that haven't flowed left because of the poisonous atmosphere created by Parker/Glass over the destruction of our contract. Maybe, just MAYBE, if management hadn't threatened to Comair II us, all those pilots wouldn't have left, and we wouldn't need all the new hires!!!
Upgrades are about to drop rapidly. Forget about your Charlie Bucket. That's union propaganda. I'm not saying overall that the union is bad, it's just that they have their own agenda when running THEIR numbers.
As for work rules. Yes, Envoy has nearly the best in the regional industry. Maybe the reserve rules could use some tweaking, but overall I can't see what the problem is regarding complaining about the work rules in general.
As for the schedules. The schedules are given to us by AAG and we have to make them work. It's really a lack of mid day flying that contributes to many of the lines built in the current fashion. It's just where we are right now. They may not be perfect, but seriously, are they really that bad? It's a fact that every month someone will post that the schedules are the worst they've ever seen. Give me a break. As far as the non commutable ends of the trip, you have company paid hotels! What more do you want? Room service delivered to your room on the company dime?
I would stress again......patience. It's taking some time for the overall company plan to come together but Envoy is a major player and is already a great regional with a robust flow, but as things continue to improve, will be THE premier regional. This, along with the flow is what will bring new hires to our doors.
02-19-2016, 09:13 AM
#1240
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Position: Violin on the Envoy-tanic
Posts: 175
THE COMPANY IS ALREADY METERING THE FLOW BECAUSE OF "FUTURE STAFFING"!!! There's a good chance that we may not flow anyone (or very few) over summer because of returning AA pilots before their deadline. And you still think we're going to send 375 this year??? Words fail me.
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