Nantonaku

This is great, you mainline guys at Compass with your ridiculous hats, what other parts of your Hulus operation is like Delta? What are you going to do with your 30k bonus this year? You really believe you are better than other regionals don't you?

eaglefly

I think they all get the money for ratifying the most recent TA in exchange for concessions. Captains get more. I got the impression that the money isn't changing many minds to stay at Envoy vs. leaving and many of those who don't already have another job lined up are aggressively trying to. I don't think there will be a "mass exodus", just no change from the present 50-60/month exodus already occurring. If they can only put 3 or 4 in a new-hire class, I think that says everything one needs to know. At that rate, Envoy will collapse long before any theoretical stampede of new-hires arrives to save it. Seems like a long-shot bad bet to me to go here. If you've got no other offers and aren't concerned with risking a 121 training failure (every event is a risk) as a newbie to the airlines, I suppose going to Envoy and at least getting some Jet experience isn't a bad idea as long as you accept the likelihood you'll be doing that again within a year or two and may have gained no seniority advantage for the effort (unless Envoy gets merged instead of shut down).

It would seem that it's more attractive to let Envoy wither on the vine though as they have several hundred senior captains with no plans to go anywhere and I can't see Parker paying them their present big bucks when he doesn't have to. Think about this; If Envoy shrinks to say 1000 pilots, 500 will be captains and most, if not all will be topped out at 18 year scale.

I don't see that as being competitive and didn't Parker just demand and get concessions claiming that as the very reason ? I think he's just kicking the can (his specialty) until Envoy is small enough to dissolve. In the interim, he's just trimming costs as much as possible without beating the bushes to scare off the snakes too fast. Doesn't sound like the last part of that is working and so they're going to have to react sooner rather then later and that's not likely to be pretty or good for present Envoy pilots. For some reason, the vision of a piñata comes to mind...........

eaglefly

I have to disagree with this and see it as wishful thinking. It's predicated on the assumption that at some magical point management will be able to match attrition with attraction. Whatever the number, attrition is only likely to remain constant, if not even increase. Can Envoy at whatever point say at 1500 pilots, suddenly attract and graduate 60/month ?

There simply aren't that number in the new-hire pipeline and you can forget about poaching other regionals to any meaningful degree. No, I foresee the inability to stem the shrinking pilot loss equation at the numbers they may want and thus as the pilot group shrinks too fast and too early, they'll have to react and there will be few good options then for Envoy pilots at least. They'll hit whatever number, but then despite their efforts the deficit will grow greater each month from the inability to replace lost pilots until they start losing market share and then they will act. There is a likely bright spot of delaying that for them. Here at AA, the flow is likely to slow to a trickle or even stop for awhile as hundreds of deferred furloughees return (there are over 1000) over the next year or so as they get 2 years extra LOS if they commit by mid February pending ratification of the present TA and the combination of divisions along with PBS requires as many as 1500 (or more) less pilots to fly the present schedule (no expansion slated till at least 2018) and it all evens out at the rate of retirements. The bottom line, AA may need very few pilots from either the street or flow thru for many months, perhaps even 18 due to furlough returns and scheduling efficiencies mitigating retirements until it balances and that could be awhile. That would be 20 less list to AA each month, but would likely only result in more aggressive outside attrition as impatient Envoy pilots take a better deal elsewhere as at least it's something real as opposed to a hypothetical promise from ethically bankrupt managers and executives with a long history of making promises only to break them later.

Good luck with your hopes for Envoy, but ultimately I see a major haircut, especially with so many 18-year $120,000/year hippies.

snippercr

I have no hope for this place either, but I appreciate the luck! I love all the luck wishing on these boards.

Good luck

eaglefly

Hey, just giving you my opinion.

The "good luck" part is weird, I agree and even more so because it's most frequently offered by a certain senior Envoy pilot........in reality, to himself.

Ar Pilot

Think you're a bit confused. Also Frontier and Virgin don't pay for hotels during training.


Envoy's new contract is truly one of the worst. They do have solid reserve rules, but when half the airline is on reserve, you need them. Pretty much no soft pay, no min day, only trip guarantee. Allows the company to fly you ACT-DFW-ABI and pay you less than 2 hours, when almost every other regional around would be making at least 3.5 for the day because of min day pay. So instead of having lines that block 72-75 and credit into the mid 80s, you're left with crediting whatever you block. That's awful.

Everyone at envoy was so blinded by the pay scale cuts that they didn't even think about trying to get some money makers in the contract. A 4 hour min day pay, SAP, or some type of trip rig would have helped the terrible schedules.

(Also, you guys might want to look into what was actually going on with your NYC CA rep during the last round of negotiations.)

Moonwolf

No upgrade. Stuck at 4 year pay. Meh contract. Bad moral. Who gives about bad lines? Envoy has joined the bottom rung

AdiosMikeFox

Let's clear that up. This is a payout for the amendment round bonus we would have already gotten. People are calling it a bribe or a signing bonus, it's not either of those. If people here think it's a bonus for signing, they're not too bright, especially if they thought it was a good reason to sign for.

AlaskaBound

WTH? If other Compass pilots got a $30k bonus then I need to know because I didn't get one. Dude, we have no bonuses at all. None, zero, zilch...

You might be referring to Endeavor? They get $15k in Sept 2015 then another $15k a year later. Is that what you're referring to?

I sense a little bit of resentment in your post. It's ok, one day you will make it to greener pastures.

It's funny how quickly this became a CP bashing contest when I didn't even mentioned CP. A select few who have it out for CP started this. I was just talking about how crappy the Envoy guys have it since they now, by their choosing, have voted in a second concessionary contract. The first concessionary contract was justifiable since they were in bankruptcy. Adios dude was trying to paint a rose picture about a polished turd so I was reminding him how a turd is still a turd.

eaglefly

Thanks for the clarification. Regardless of what it actually is, the gist I got was that it wouldn't shorten or alter the plans of those who are intent on vacating at the first opportunity.