More great news at Envoy!
10-08-2014, 10:54 AM
#531
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,238
The insane thing is they didn't even have to fight for anything. They had a competitive TA handed to them. Eagle guys are class acts but they didn't see the forest through the trees, and thought they had management by the balls.
Republic said the same thing, voted down their TA, here we are years later STILL under the old contract. Who's laughing all the way to the bank now?
When you don't own your flying you don't have much leverage to play on. It sucks. We know. Either you can accept it as fact and move on, upgrade, and GTFO or become the next Comair, XJT, Eagle, Republic, even SkyWest is incredibly stagnant with costs continuing to increase.
What's better? Right seat for the better part of a decade for $3/hr more or left seat in 12 months, at a major in 3? What is your end goal? How do you get there the fastest? Management in this case was pushing them in the right direction, but a ridiculous few lazy senior folks somehow convinced the entire group to vote no.
Republic said the same thing, voted down their TA, here we are years later STILL under the old contract. Who's laughing all the way to the bank now?
When you don't own your flying you don't have much leverage to play on. It sucks. We know. Either you can accept it as fact and move on, upgrade, and GTFO or become the next Comair, XJT, Eagle, Republic, even SkyWest is incredibly stagnant with costs continuing to increase.
What's better? Right seat for the better part of a decade for $3/hr more or left seat in 12 months, at a major in 3? What is your end goal? How do you get there the fastest? Management in this case was pushing them in the right direction, but a ridiculous few lazy senior folks somehow convinced the entire group to vote no.
10-08-2014, 11:08 AM
#532
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Position: forever fo
Posts: 2,413
The insane thing is they didn't even have to fight for anything. They had a competitive TA handed to them. Eagle guys are class acts but they didn't see the forest through the trees, and thought they had management by the balls.
Republic said the same thing, voted down their TA, here we are years later STILL under the old contract. Who's laughing all the way to the bank now?
When you don't own your flying you don't have much leverage to play on. It sucks. We know. Either you can accept it as fact and move on, upgrade, and GTFO or become the next Comair, XJT, Eagle, Republic, even SkyWest is incredibly stagnant with costs continuing to increase.
What's better? Right seat for the better part of a decade for $3/hr more or left seat in 12 months, at a major in 3? What is your end goal? How do you get there the fastest? Management in this case was pushing them in the right direction, but a ridiculous few lazy senior folks somehow convinced the entire group to vote no.
Republic said the same thing, voted down their TA, here we are years later STILL under the old contract. Who's laughing all the way to the bank now?
When you don't own your flying you don't have much leverage to play on. It sucks. We know. Either you can accept it as fact and move on, upgrade, and GTFO or become the next Comair, XJT, Eagle, Republic, even SkyWest is incredibly stagnant with costs continuing to increase.
What's better? Right seat for the better part of a decade for $3/hr more or left seat in 12 months, at a major in 3? What is your end goal? How do you get there the fastest? Management in this case was pushing them in the right direction, but a ridiculous few lazy senior folks somehow convinced the entire group to vote no.
It's so shirt sighted, biased and wrong it's hard to even start a rebuttle. No one has a one year upgrade. The future of everyone but comair is to be seen. The places with fast upgrades when I was interviewing four years ago, majority I wouldn't be a captain now. We weren't screwed by a few senior guys, they mainly voted yes. We voted for the l ong haul. No three year road to a major. It goes on and on. You must be at psa.
10-08-2014, 11:17 AM
#533
Banned
Joined APC: Aug 2014
Position: A320 F/O
Posts: 442
This post is bs
It's so shirt sighted, biased and wrong it's hard to even start a rebuttle. No one has a one year upgrade. The future of everyone but comair is to be seen. The places with fast upgrades when I was interviewing four years ago, majority I wouldn't be a captain now. We weren't screwed by a few senior guys, they mainly voted yes. We voted for the l ong haul. No three year road to a major. It goes on and on. You must be at psa.
It's so shirt sighted, biased and wrong it's hard to even start a rebuttle. No one has a one year upgrade. The future of everyone but comair is to be seen. The places with fast upgrades when I was interviewing four years ago, majority I wouldn't be a captain now. We weren't screwed by a few senior guys, they mainly voted yes. We voted for the l ong haul. No three year road to a major. It goes on and on. You must be at psa.
Good luck with your "long haul" career at the regionals.
10-08-2014, 11:44 AM
#534
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,707
inline you think you are going to a mainline any time soon?
your short view will keep you at a regional longer and live through any rate fix you agreed to.
American airlines is turning into a larger US airways, run by the same people who only made money because they stole from the employees. The only thing left of american in two years will be the name another nickle and dime company.
your short view will keep you at a regional longer and live through any rate fix you agreed to.
American airlines is turning into a larger US airways, run by the same people who only made money because they stole from the employees. The only thing left of american in two years will be the name another nickle and dime company.
10-08-2014, 11:47 AM
#535
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Position: It's hot out here.
Posts: 615
I posted this on another thread, but I think it may have some relevance on this thread as well.
I think the current seniority system we operate under is detrimental to every pilot in the industry because it prohibits movement from one carrier to the next. The system works in the favor of management. I cannot think of any other profession where experience is not considered when calculating compensation. If I could argue for one thing it would be a single seniority system across the regional airline industry.
There is no incentive for regional airlines to retain individuals. In fact if we look at Envoy and the 2650 pilots (APC numbers) currently on the payroll, what incentive does AAG management have to keep any of them? If AAG folds Envoy and puts the 2650 pilots on the street I would speculate many would move to another carrier starting at first year pay. AAG contracts out to the lowest bidder and the same pilot that was a 15 year captain making $99 an hour is now a 1st year FO making $22 without the medical / 401K / Dental / etc. This system has to change. There needs to be an incentive for the company to want to keep their pilots and the industry should pay for experienced professionals not some arbitrary date of hire.
Regarding ALPA contributing to the pilot shortage, I think that is nonsense. There is no pilot shortage. I do however hold the opinion that ALPA does not represent the interests of the regional pilot. There is a direct conflict of interest with regard to compensation for pilots at a Major and pilots at a Regional. If the companies contracting out the flying (Delta, United, American) have to pay more for regional pilot labor, then there is less money available for Major pilot labor. I think its that simple and that is why I don't believe ALPA has the regional pilot's best interest in mind (at least monetarily).
I am not sure what the fix is for the problems in OUR industry, but I am certain a good starting point would be the seniority list.
I think the current seniority system we operate under is detrimental to every pilot in the industry because it prohibits movement from one carrier to the next. The system works in the favor of management. I cannot think of any other profession where experience is not considered when calculating compensation. If I could argue for one thing it would be a single seniority system across the regional airline industry.
There is no incentive for regional airlines to retain individuals. In fact if we look at Envoy and the 2650 pilots (APC numbers) currently on the payroll, what incentive does AAG management have to keep any of them? If AAG folds Envoy and puts the 2650 pilots on the street I would speculate many would move to another carrier starting at first year pay. AAG contracts out to the lowest bidder and the same pilot that was a 15 year captain making $99 an hour is now a 1st year FO making $22 without the medical / 401K / Dental / etc. This system has to change. There needs to be an incentive for the company to want to keep their pilots and the industry should pay for experienced professionals not some arbitrary date of hire.
Regarding ALPA contributing to the pilot shortage, I think that is nonsense. There is no pilot shortage. I do however hold the opinion that ALPA does not represent the interests of the regional pilot. There is a direct conflict of interest with regard to compensation for pilots at a Major and pilots at a Regional. If the companies contracting out the flying (Delta, United, American) have to pay more for regional pilot labor, then there is less money available for Major pilot labor. I think its that simple and that is why I don't believe ALPA has the regional pilot's best interest in mind (at least monetarily).
I am not sure what the fix is for the problems in OUR industry, but I am certain a good starting point would be the seniority list.
10-08-2014, 11:58 AM
#536
Banned
Joined APC: Aug 2014
Position: A320 F/O
Posts: 442
inline you think you are going to a mainline any time soon?
your short view will keep you at a regional longer and live through any rate fix you agreed to.
American airlines is turning into a larger US airways, run by the same people who only made money because they stole from the employees. The only thing left of american in two years will be the name another nickle and dime company.
your short view will keep you at a regional longer and live through any rate fix you agreed to.
American airlines is turning into a larger US airways, run by the same people who only made money because they stole from the employees. The only thing left of american in two years will be the name another nickle and dime company.
I hope you're wrong about our future, because it impacts everyone not only at AAG but also our WO's and contract carriers, etc. on down the line.
Moving on, the goal at the regionals is to minimize your time there. I was part of the lost decade, as were most of us on this board. It really did suck for us.
Spend the least amount of time at the regionals as you possibly can. You do yourself no good spending the better part of a decade there, they sucked my 20's completely dry. Every time I hear regionals and "long term", "long haul", "lifer" etc. I cringe. Don't succumb to that mentality. There are some incredible opportunities to give your career a fast track available right now at several carriers. Take advantage of it while they exist.
10-08-2014, 01:58 PM
#537
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,648
This post is bs
It's so shirt sighted, biased and wrong it's hard to even start a rebuttle. No one has a one year upgrade. The future of everyone but comair is to be seen. The places with fast upgrades when I was interviewing four years ago, majority I wouldn't be a captain now. We weren't screwed by a few senior guys, they mainly voted yes. We voted for the l ong haul. No three year road to a major. It goes on and on. You must be at psa.
It's so shirt sighted, biased and wrong it's hard to even start a rebuttle. No one has a one year upgrade. The future of everyone but comair is to be seen. The places with fast upgrades when I was interviewing four years ago, majority I wouldn't be a captain now. We weren't screwed by a few senior guys, they mainly voted yes. We voted for the l ong haul. No three year road to a major. It goes on and on. You must be at psa.
10-08-2014, 05:42 PM
#540
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,648
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