More great news at Envoy!
09-22-2014, 04:12 PM
#402
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: Qualified to carry liquids through security.
Posts: 771
09-22-2014, 04:22 PM
#403
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,707
I let myself get wrapped up in the Mason32 propaganda of "1 way to AA", and I turned down a really good offer. I made a mistake, but I'm getting out of aviation now and I'm happy. I hope all the FOs at Eagle find soft landing places, I'm sure they will. Most of the people I flew with were great guys and the FOs I knew from my class and crashpads were stand up individuals as well.
Buddies I'm really sorry you're so bitter. I understand how bad the 00's were and I'm truly sorry you had to live through that. I hope those experiences don't further cloud your judgement of the industry. The flow will work, the increased flow would have worked because mathematically it would have had to. Things are starting to look up in this industry at the mainline level and while that may never truly translate to the regional sector most careers will be just fine in the long run.
Buddies I'm really sorry you're so bitter. I understand how bad the 00's were and I'm truly sorry you had to live through that. I hope those experiences don't further cloud your judgement of the industry. The flow will work, the increased flow would have worked because mathematically it would have had to. Things are starting to look up in this industry at the mainline level and while that may never truly translate to the regional sector most careers will be just fine in the long run.
The only attitude I have is against concessions when you already gave at the store, especially for something management has to give you to maintain the operation as example flow to aa and convince the pilots to pay for it by giving concessions. Then I have an attitude.
I do wish you well in your career whether in aviation or not.
09-23-2014, 03:54 AM
#405
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: 1st year pay for the 3rd time
Posts: 1,434
If PSA and PDT had voted no, Eagle was STILL going to be the higher-cost wholly-owned, (simply because they have such a large and senior pilot group), and for that reason, alone,.... they were necessarily going to shrink.
The only question that remains is this: HOW MUCH is Eagle going to shrink? And the answer to THAT question depends on how much more flying the other (cheaper) regionals can handle.
Eagle was expensive, relative to other wholly-owneds and was going to shrink, either via attrition or flow,.....regardless of PSA or PDT's vote.
And yes, I know they're now "Envoy",....but to me they'll always be "Eagle".
The only question that remains is this: HOW MUCH is Eagle going to shrink? And the answer to THAT question depends on how much more flying the other (cheaper) regionals can handle.
Eagle was expensive, relative to other wholly-owneds and was going to shrink, either via attrition or flow,.....regardless of PSA or PDT's vote.
And yes, I know they're now "Envoy",....but to me they'll always be "Eagle".
The problem with that is the more Eagle shrinks, the higher their costs. The top 300 pilots are at the top of the pay scale and they didn't have to take a pay cut in the last TA. The only way for Eagle to become less expensive is for the senior guys to take a buyout. I doubt AAG will offer a package enticing enough to be considered.
09-23-2014, 06:57 AM
#406
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2012
Posts: 610
The only attitude I have is against concessions when you already gave at the store, especially for something management has to give you to maintain the operation as example flow to aa and convince the pilots to pay for it by giving concessions. Then I have an attitude.
I do wish you well in your career whether in aviation or not.
I do wish you well in your career whether in aviation or not.
It appears now with RAH, Mesa, Compass, and PSA there won’t be a shortage of guys with 500-1,000 TPIC competing for jobs. The winner out of the 1500 hour rule is not the regional’s as Envoy hoped during negotiations. It is mainline, jobs are coming back to them for free and leaving the regional’s faster than the pilots can, which is the leverage the company holds. It’s good for the industry, but a huge pill to swallow if your 5-8 years in as an FO.
Think about what you’re saying, “I am prepared to burn it down” what you are really saying is “I am prepared to start a fire on the other side of the building” you know your contract. The fire will burn and still be a long way from your office 1500+ numbers deep in the seniority list.
Are you really prepared to be the first to resign so that the most junior FO doesn’t get laid off?
09-23-2014, 07:25 AM
#407
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Posts: 3,013
You might be right, but you are generally at a conflict of interest, ultimately you are voting to keep what you have and are trying to convince young FO’s to help you keep what you have. It did appear in the spring that when RAH announced the Chautauqua wind down and consolidation and MESA canceled the GO operation that time was on Envoy pilot’s side. Now that the reality is Envoy FO’s are screwed for good, but you still have what you had. It is difficult to believe you voted on general principle when you are the winner and your fellow FO’s are the losers. I don’t know you personally, but typically, the appearance of a conflict of interest is a conflict of interest.
It appears now with RAH, Mesa, Compass, and PSA there won’t be a shortage of guys with 500-1,000 TPIC competing for jobs. The winner out of the 1500 hour rule is not the regional’s as Envoy hoped during negotiations. It is mainline, jobs are coming back to them for free and leaving the regional’s faster than the pilots can, which is the leverage the company holds. It’s good for the industry, but a huge pill to swallow if your 5-8 years in as an FO.
Think about what you’re saying, “I am prepared to burn it down” what you are really saying is “I am prepared to start a fire on the other side of the building” you know your contract. The fire will burn and still be a long way from your office 1500+ numbers deep in the seniority list.
Are you really prepared to be the first to resign so that the most junior FO doesn’t get laid off?
It appears now with RAH, Mesa, Compass, and PSA there won’t be a shortage of guys with 500-1,000 TPIC competing for jobs. The winner out of the 1500 hour rule is not the regional’s as Envoy hoped during negotiations. It is mainline, jobs are coming back to them for free and leaving the regional’s faster than the pilots can, which is the leverage the company holds. It’s good for the industry, but a huge pill to swallow if your 5-8 years in as an FO.
Think about what you’re saying, “I am prepared to burn it down” what you are really saying is “I am prepared to start a fire on the other side of the building” you know your contract. The fire will burn and still be a long way from your office 1500+ numbers deep in the seniority list.
Are you really prepared to be the first to resign so that the most junior FO doesn’t get laid off?
09-23-2014, 08:15 AM
#408
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
Well, ANYONE who makes career decisions based on Internet forum pilot blather is in bad shape. I criticized many who sat like wide-eyed puppies glued to every word "big dog" Mason said, but most were in love with him and too mesmerized to do anything but shoo me away.
At least you've made an important step of actually thinking for yourself. Some here have done little but start looking for a new messiah to repeat the same mistake over again. Siwwy piwots.........
At least you've made an important step of actually thinking for yourself. Some here have done little but start looking for a new messiah to repeat the same mistake over again. Siwwy piwots.........
09-23-2014, 08:35 AM
#409
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,648
Well, ANYONE who makes career decisions based on Internet forum pilot blather is in bad shape. I criticized many who sat like wide-eyed puppies glued to every word "big dog" Mason said, but most were in love with him and too mesmerized to do anything but shoo me away.
At least you've made an important step of actually thinking for yourself. Some here have done little but start looking for a new messiah to repeat the same mistake over again. Siwwy piwots.........
At least you've made an important step of actually thinking for yourself. Some here have done little but start looking for a new messiah to repeat the same mistake over again. Siwwy piwots.........
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
