pagey

Of course they all use F&H. They would be foolish not to.

That doesn't change the fact that the negotiating landscape at regionals and majors are totally different.

"vote this in or we shut you down" is not a valid threat at DAL/UAL/AAG/Blue/etc, etc. A Delta Airlines flight on Delta Airlines metal will be flown by a Delta Airlines pilot, period.

At a wholly owned, not only is it a credible threat but it is also completely in their power to act out as evidenced at least in part by the 47 700s moving from Eagle. PSA's total fleet previously was only 49 acft, PDTs I think is something like 38.

In the current environment mainline unions are flush with some pretty good negotiating capital. There will always be a little give and take with new contracts, thats why it's called "negotiating." Rest assured though that mainline contracts will see good gains in the near future. Hopefully it doesn't come at the cost of further scope erosion. That same scope that is giving them the leverage in the first place. I am optimistic this is not the case because I believe that mainline pilots have "seen the light" that scope is a major issue to their personal job security. As long as the current scope clauses become the new stopping point regional negotiations will remain regional negotiations. Nothing will be "following" anyone to mainline.

You guys made a calculated gamble based on some (probably) incorrect information that unfortunately proved to be the wrong move. However, Eagle's situation right now is in no way a microcosm of upcoming legacy contract negotiations.

tom11011

Interesting response as you are on record claiming you don't work for PDT??

Dunkin

You could explain it to these Envoy guys forever and they still will not get it, especially the alumni crowd that had a nice little golden parachute of their own to AA. Plenty of junior Envoy guys I know are ****ed and looking to make a lateral move.

AnotherEagleGuy

Again, yes and no. Their tactics are different for the same end goal, cheaper labor.

Union busting HR groups use the spread of fear, uncertainty, and control to get what they want... Shutting down, job uncertainty, threat of furlough, it works on all labor groups.

I'm sure you've watched this before, but take a couple of minutes to watch it again. I saw it for the first time put out by APA during the AA bankruptcy. The tactics failed to work on APA, but worked on Eagle.

Confessions of a Union Buster
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-0gxca-VxM

Also

Union-Busting Tactics More Pervasive Than Previously Thought: Study

Union Busting Playbook

pagey

Yes they want cheaper labor. To not try to make labor cheaper would be not doing their jobs. I've seen the video. It is not airline specific.

Our original discussion was about a yes vote/voter continuing to mainline. "Once a yes voter always a yes voter" is not enough. Each situation is different. My mainline vote will be considered very differently than any vote I would've made at a regioanl.

Delta begins negotiating their next deal in a few months. What tactics will be used against them and, do you expect them to be successful? How will recent regional negotiations affect them?

AnotherEagleGuy

And there is where I perceive is the fault in your logic and where we differ in our opinion of what an airline pilot is.

I'll save that argument for another day.

pagey

Just calling it how I see it.

There are many different factors to consider for a mainline pilot vs a regional pilot vote and vice versa.

At least we could have an intelligent back and forth without JT8D chiming in and forcing me to not look at this website for days. Buddies gave it his best shot though.

buddies8

thank you.

buddies8

you mean tony g, davr r, doug g, john g, frank k, etc; the ones who sold out the pilots here wholesale.

Bzzt

I think both MECs had their failings, Team Tony drilled some holes in the ship, Sprague and company just expanded the holes. This thing is sinking fast now.