skyxbomb

You're preaching to the choir my friend. And I've been flying for 15 years so I'm not really a newbie. I'm at least an intermediate by now I would hope. How long have you been flying? funny how the loudest ones are 1-2 year FOs and flight attendants. Not talking about you but just in general.

39% of us took the stand with you! It would've been shot down had AA not said Mesa would get the 900s if we vote it down. Forget bankruptcy pressure, are you guys not feeling the record profit pressure? I'm not trying to be funny. AA has more power now that they're making record profit. A lot of it has to do with the fake bankruptcy and power to whipsaw not just 3 wholly owned but along with 8 other regionals that flies for the new AA. You can't make excuse for AE taking concessions during bankruptcy, just like Endeavor shouldn't make excuses for their concessions during their bankruptcy and neither should PSA. The threat to shut down PSA is even more real in our recent vote than what Eagle had to vote on during bankruptcy. AE was the main and pretty much only game in town and AA had billions in the bank. And like I've said before, if PSA had furlough protection, it would've been an easy no for us too. Pay attention to PDT's vote. They're in worse position than PSA was, you try convincing them that shutdown is not real for their 350 pilots.

skyxbomb

My buddy who is just senior to me bypassed the upgrade for months now because he doesn't want to take the pay cut. I've finally got to fly with him last month, I told him there's noway he's taking a pay cut by upgrading. He showed me his pay stubs and he was making 1k more than me a month. I think in July he credited 150 something hours with 11 days off. Flew about 90. Another buddy who holds the company record just north of 200 credit for the month. He's a junior captain and probably made just as much as mainline captain that month if not more. Saw him few weeks ago and I asked are you going for a new record? He laughed and said no I'm around 150 credit hours this month. What other regional can one do that? But I guess it's better if we vote no and let the planes goto Mesa like they would've. I'm sure Mesa FOs can make more than my PSA captain salary if they want. Maybe growing PSA isn't that bad for the industry because no other regionals would even think about giving their pilots sap and critical pay like the ones we have. But yea they want you to cap out at 12/4 like PSA and our crappy contract.

Coolbeans

What makes me irate is when I hear PSA guys talk about how much credits they make. Listen I am happy that you guys are doing well but the benefit of being able to drop and then pick up trips only will last as long as you all are short staff. I am happy that things are looking good for you guys but no one knows what the future holds and things can quickly change. If it were not for the 2 pilots recovering after stalling out both engines in the climb a couple of months ago PSA might be an after thought and instead of gloating about how well things are going you might be sending messages out trying to find jobs at different airlines.

Paid2fly

I started flying in H.S., and have flown professionally(getting paid)since my last 2 years of college which was a lot more than 15 years ago(thanks for asking).
Look, I've said it before, I don't work for Envoy. However, I have a lot of friends that were former Wings West, that became Eagle and now Envoy that I really feel for! I don't have all the answers, but I do know one thing for certain!!!
Never trust management! How can you and others keep buying into everything they say while trying to get you to agree to the concessions they claimed to need? You claim "it would've been shot down had AA not said Mesa would get the 900's".
You don't think they would tell you whatever it took to get what they wanted?? You really think a company that is already staffing by doing phone interviews(aka Hi, what class date would you like), could even possibly staff anymore A/C???
Does management ever come to a pilot group when asking for concessions and say: Hey, we're making all time record profits, but we need the pilot group to take pay cuts(so we can get bigger bonuses and pay increases).
I truly believe with the age 65, 117, and 121 ATP requirement, we finally had a shot at not going backwards anymore. You know, the whole united we stand divided we fall thing???

P.S.
I've listened to all the arguments from your group on why that wouldn't work and just don't buy it.
They couldn't give all the flying to Mesa, even if they wanted to(no way they could grow any faster than currently trying).
Compass really couldn't take much more than what they already got(its just not possible to grow much faster, especially while they're still losing guys from former flow through).
Every other non-owned is more expensive so Parker wouldn't save money over Envoy.

skyxbomb

Sorry you took it as gloating. Every one of these responses is due to someone else saying PSA has a horrible contract and we took concessions as you can see from the quote I've included in my response. The fact is PSA pilots make top regional dollars. Might not be something to stop the press but it sure as heck debunks all these senseless claims about PSA lowering the industry standard when we're probably leading monetary and QOL wise. If someone wants to hate PSA for being stuck between a rock and a hard place and chose to survive then it's completely understandable. But don't hate PSA saying we have crap contract or pay like the recent XJT MEC letter that ridicules our first year FO pay when XJT first year pay is even lower.

skyxbomb

Hey paid2fly, I guess we have to agree to agree. I think we're both on the same page and that's why many of us voted no.

meyers9163

Over 3 years ago and both very experienced pilots.... Nice try on a cheap shot with an ignorant response or just plain stupidity as you quote a time frame not close.

Da Magic

All emotions aside, as an Envoy CA I think when comparing PSA and Envoy it's apples and oranges. PSA was targeted by management. They saw an opportunity to get 60% of 400 pilots to change the regional industry!

This is where ALPA let Envoy down. The two pilot groups have nothing to do with each other but are faced with playing with the same deck of cards.

ShyGuy

What's with the MEC emails floating around from PSA and XJT that are in support of Envoy? It sounds just like the "express our/my deepest condolences" when somebody dies. They're just empty words that mean nothing, but it sounds good to say it, and then you go golfing. At the end of the day nothing changes. A real test would be if these MEC (PSA, XJT, and whoever else writes for Envoy) is willing to approach their own management in order to get Envoy pilots on property with credit for longevity for pay and bidding schedules/vacation. That's solidarity and true support but you can bet it'll never happen. Many pilots are self-serving and greedy, which is why I believe PSA voted yes in the first place. I do feel bad for the Envoy guys, they stood up for what's right and basically got stabbed in the back.

evilboy

Finally someone with common sense and civility here. Kudos to you Sir.