Lvlng4Spd

This argument is ridiculous. How are you selling away a good career if you make 90-100K as a regional airline captain at PSA at year 12? I could sleep well at night with that kind of job security and income. Not to mention the likelihood of escaping the minor leagues through flow or interview. If people want to stay, fine, no real penalty. They are stuck at 90-100k, boo hoo so terrible...get over it.

tom11011

Unfortunately, at this time my opinion is that Envoy is going to shutter, there doesn't seem to be any other possible way forward for Envoy as a going concern.

I was convinced that Envoy would merge with another wholly owned but with the announcement of CRJ200 aircraft being moved, that is not likely at all. Further, it seems crystal clear that the undesirable and expensive 47 EMB140 aircraft are gone. This leaves Envoy with an airline 1/2 of its former size.

Some might say that with attrition that Envoy would be ok and not need to furlough, but it goes far, far beyond that now. After the downsizing, Envoy would be left with a super senior pilot group making unsustainable wages, labor costs far higher than the industry standard, even if the standard was brought up by a carrier like Skywest or Republic.

This is going to be an unpopular thing to say. The pilot group at PSA, without direct intention I'm sure, may have single handed-ly decided the fate of Envoy- it's destruction.

Now before anyone gets in a huff, let me just close by saying while it sucks to be an Envoy pilot right now because of the shuttering of the company or the length of time it will now take a pilot to upgrade (take your pic), it may actually serve to speed up the return of Regional B scale flying back to mainline. Anytime a large company (aka comair) shutters, there is a certain percentage of talent that won't or can't ever come back to year 1 wages. Those pilots are lost forever at a time when the industry can't find pilots.

Remember, this is only year 1 of the 'great pilot shortage'. It's doesn't even reach its peak for 6 more years. Today all we are doing is pilot shuffling of year 1 FO's. That's about to change though.

PilotJ3

Exactly...

What PSA guys don't see is that they will be next Envoy. They will grow and won't be able to flow as many people they think.

This is Parker Wet dream...you they signed for 48 pilots a year, envoy is losing minimum 250 a year into AA. Yes, probably the first group to flow will be above 12yr pay, he will get rid of couple of SR guys. Creating a Jr workforce in PSA.

Then, most will be at yr 12. Once they staff the company FOs will stop at yr4 asking themselves "what just happened? Wasn't I supposed to be a Ca by now?". This will take some time to develop, it won't happen tomorrow, but it will in the next 2 to 3 years.

Meanwhile Envoy will be a 145 carrier with greater movement into AA, reducing the pay sheet. Then, once PSA becomes the bigger carrier, rinse and repeat. They will grow Envoy and shrink PSA.

At that time, most of us should be out of either regional. This is set for the future, not for now. That's why is a 10tr contract. Nothing will happen now, it will be later.

seafeye

Envoy had their choice. 3 times. We didn't force then to say No to Parker. Eagle/envoy pilots were and are in charge of their own fate. Just because PSA voted in Pay caps has very little bearing on how Eagles MEC negotiated with management.

You must also understand that PSA has bases in CLT/TYS/DAY. Very very cheap places to live. A 12 year captain can still make $120-$150k. Our wages are very acceptable. Now I'm not for the f/o 4 year pay cap. But I guess enough people were because it passed.

Joliet

You're arguing with a guy who self admittedly is not an airline pilot, and has no skin in the game. It's like Joe Buck telling a pro athlete what he should have done.

Paid2fly

Totally with ya brother!

Paid2fly

You're saying PSA has captains making $150K, really love to see proof of that....
You guys are as good at making up B/S excuses(for your pathetic actions), as you are at selling out the crews that actually tried to take a stand against managements constant attacks against pay and benefits in our already far underpaid segment of the "profession"!

skyxbomb

You mean like the concessions eagle took just 2-3 years ago? Airways approached PSA 3 times for concessions, and this was the first time PSA caved. Even then it was passed by 11%. Eagle voted in concessions by 4-1 ratio I believe when their jobs were on the line. Now that you've got furlough protection (from your concessions) and real flow to AA, you give yourselves a pat in the back to voting no on the recent TA where your job security wasn't even in jeopardy? Think all high and mighty of yourselves if you want. We're all pilots and we're all from all over the country. Maybe we're not all that different?

Paid2fly

Another PSA newby that knows it all...
When then Eagle took concessions their major partner had forced their hand with a shamruptcy(fake bankruptcy) at their mother company(AA). I must have missed the part where PSA voted concessions in under any type of bankruptcy pressure?. In fact, when your group voted yes to concessions AA(your parent company) had been reporting record profits, and Envoy along with Expressjet, Republic, and Silver had voted against any more concessions.
If not now, when is the time to stop going backwards? We finally have a small window of opportunity with age 65, 117 rules, and ATP minimums for 121 flying... but you guys just couldn't tell Parker enough(while he gets ever larger bonuses and pay increases). Don't you get tired of seeing the 1% at the top constantly taking more from us to line their pockets???

Coolbeans

So now that everyone has got there emotions out of the way...what can we do as fellow pilots to help people take care of their families. I personally know of one guy at Envoy that has been at eagle for 5 years has a beautiful daughter and another on the way how can we help mitigate this painful situation for him and the many other people that are going through these tough times.