Hiring / class pauses
07-27-2024, 02:05 PM
#311
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2010
Posts: 136
So this is probably under the heading of "My best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with the girl who saw Ferris pass out at 31 Flavors last night" but....
On another web forum someone who is a sim instructor at Envoy said there are no more classes until September.
Here's a grain of salt for you to take as well.
On another web forum someone who is a sim instructor at Envoy said there are no more classes until September.
Here's a grain of salt for you to take as well.
Thank you, Simone.
07-27-2024, 04:52 PM
#312
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2023
Posts: 44
Um, no. Until about a month ago, on the FO side, you could drop trips pretty regularly. Also, the FO reserve list has been zeroed out multiple times this month. Until last month, a senior FO could bid reserve and never work, like I did. This month, I've been called every day. In DFW, there are currently more CA than FO on the base list.
07-28-2024, 08:16 AM
#313
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2022
Posts: 87
Ok so you’re DFW based. DFW has a lot better staffing because it has 3x the lines of the next closest base. It’s a different experience at the other 3 bases. Calling the next day desk the night before usually is your best bet for dropping but if you try to do it during the 48hr window or via RF form it’s pretty useless. So yeah, unless you’re vacation sliding or DTSing like a pro then you’re not dropping things. And it’s gonna be worse when PBS comes out.
07-30-2024, 02:40 PM
#315
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jul 2024
Posts: 16
07-31-2024, 03:49 AM
#316
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2022
Posts: 288
Envoy has zero time lines for Miami FOs and captains for the month of August. This is the opportunity to take a month off and not get paid. Zero time lines are entirely voluntary, but you need to remove them from your bid if you don't want them or you might accidentally get one. Envoy tries to staff all their bases appropriately, but the amount of flying assigned by AA in each base varies month to month. Miami has fun flying routes into the islands but the quantity of flying there has dropped off a bit. AA decides which regional partner to award flying to and Envoy has to adjust to whatever they get.
Sometimes in the winter Envoy offers part time lines too--work half the month for half the pay--and these went very senior among DFW captains in January and February. Zero and part time lines are a way for Envoy to save money when it suits them, but they usually continue hiring while this happens in some bases. They still have to plan to staff flying during peak travel months.
I suspect Aero Crew News made a sensational story to get attention out of the common practice of offering zero time lines. The slow down in attrition has affected all the regionals, and the better ones have mostly caught up in pilot hiring. Most people given a choice will choose a job without a contract, so Republic and SkyWest are the airlines still scrambling to hire pilots after the more desirable jobs were filled.
When I had recurrent training in mid June, I heard there would be small new hire classes through the summer and training would pick up in the fall. I heard we no longer need DECs. Envoy is constantly recalculating their staffing levels and they are not good with communication--they will keep you hanging until they need you. You probably won't hear from Envoy until 3 weeks before they have a class for you. They figure if some pilots go elsewhere, there are more waiting to take their places. It's a business. The biggest factors affecting Envoy's hiring are AA's quarterly loss and the slowdown in pilot attrition. I expect pilot hiring will continue, just not at previous rates. The people who know what is going on in the training department aren't posting on here. I know lots of people are desperate for information right now, and unfortunately, they are going to have to wait and see with the rest of us.
Sometimes in the winter Envoy offers part time lines too--work half the month for half the pay--and these went very senior among DFW captains in January and February. Zero and part time lines are a way for Envoy to save money when it suits them, but they usually continue hiring while this happens in some bases. They still have to plan to staff flying during peak travel months.
I suspect Aero Crew News made a sensational story to get attention out of the common practice of offering zero time lines. The slow down in attrition has affected all the regionals, and the better ones have mostly caught up in pilot hiring. Most people given a choice will choose a job without a contract, so Republic and SkyWest are the airlines still scrambling to hire pilots after the more desirable jobs were filled.
When I had recurrent training in mid June, I heard there would be small new hire classes through the summer and training would pick up in the fall. I heard we no longer need DECs. Envoy is constantly recalculating their staffing levels and they are not good with communication--they will keep you hanging until they need you. You probably won't hear from Envoy until 3 weeks before they have a class for you. They figure if some pilots go elsewhere, there are more waiting to take their places. It's a business. The biggest factors affecting Envoy's hiring are AA's quarterly loss and the slowdown in pilot attrition. I expect pilot hiring will continue, just not at previous rates. The people who know what is going on in the training department aren't posting on here. I know lots of people are desperate for information right now, and unfortunately, they are going to have to wait and see with the rest of us.
07-31-2024, 07:51 AM
#317
Line Holder
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Feb 2024
Posts: 73
Envoy has zero time lines for Miami FOs and captains for the month of August. This is the opportunity to take a month off and not get paid. Zero time lines are entirely voluntary, but you need to remove them from your bid if you don't want them or you might accidentally get one. Envoy tries to staff all their bases appropriately, but the amount of flying assigned by AA in each base varies month to month. Miami has fun flying routes into the islands but the quantity of flying there has dropped off a bit. AA decides which regional partner to award flying to and Envoy has to adjust to whatever they get.
Sometimes in the winter Envoy offers part time lines too--work half the month for half the pay--and these went very senior among DFW captains in January and February. Zero and part time lines are a way for Envoy to save money when it suits them, but they usually continue hiring while this happens in some bases. They still have to plan to staff flying during peak travel months.
I suspect Aero Crew News made a sensational story to get attention out of the common practice of offering zero time lines. The slow down in attrition has affected all the regionals, and the better ones have mostly caught up in pilot hiring. Most people given a choice will choose a job without a contract, so Republic and SkyWest are the airlines still scrambling to hire pilots after the more desirable jobs were filled.
When I had recurrent training in mid June, I heard there would be small new hire classes through the summer and training would pick up in the fall. I heard we no longer need DECs. Envoy is constantly recalculating their staffing levels and they are not good with communication--they will keep you hanging until they need you. You probably won't hear from Envoy until 3 weeks before they have a class for you. They figure if some pilots go elsewhere, there are more waiting to take their places. It's a business. The biggest factors affecting Envoy's hiring are AA's quarterly loss and the slowdown in pilot attrition. I expect pilot hiring will continue, just not at previous rates. The people who know what is going on in the training department aren't posting on here. I know lots of people are desperate for information right now, and unfortunately, they are going to have to wait and see with the rest of us.
Sometimes in the winter Envoy offers part time lines too--work half the month for half the pay--and these went very senior among DFW captains in January and February. Zero and part time lines are a way for Envoy to save money when it suits them, but they usually continue hiring while this happens in some bases. They still have to plan to staff flying during peak travel months.
I suspect Aero Crew News made a sensational story to get attention out of the common practice of offering zero time lines. The slow down in attrition has affected all the regionals, and the better ones have mostly caught up in pilot hiring. Most people given a choice will choose a job without a contract, so Republic and SkyWest are the airlines still scrambling to hire pilots after the more desirable jobs were filled.
When I had recurrent training in mid June, I heard there would be small new hire classes through the summer and training would pick up in the fall. I heard we no longer need DECs. Envoy is constantly recalculating their staffing levels and they are not good with communication--they will keep you hanging until they need you. You probably won't hear from Envoy until 3 weeks before they have a class for you. They figure if some pilots go elsewhere, there are more waiting to take their places. It's a business. The biggest factors affecting Envoy's hiring are AA's quarterly loss and the slowdown in pilot attrition. I expect pilot hiring will continue, just not at previous rates. The people who know what is going on in the training department aren't posting on here. I know lots of people are desperate for information right now, and unfortunately, they are going to have to wait and see with the rest of us.
08-02-2024, 12:37 AM
#318
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Position: Semi-Retired...
Posts: 3,229
Envoy has zero time lines for Miami FOs and captains for the month of August. This is the opportunity to take a month off and not get paid. Zero time lines are entirely voluntary, but you need to remove them from your bid if you don't want them or you might accidentally get one. Envoy tries to staff all their bases appropriately, but the amount of flying assigned by AA in each base varies month to month. Miami has fun flying routes into the islands but the quantity of flying there has dropped off a bit. AA decides which regional partner to award flying to and Envoy has to adjust to whatever they get.
Sometimes in the winter Envoy offers part time lines too--work half the month for half the pay--and these went very senior among DFW captains in January and February. Zero and part time lines are a way for Envoy to save money when it suits them, but they usually continue hiring while this happens in some bases. They still have to plan to staff flying during peak travel months.
I suspect Aero Crew News made a sensational story to get attention out of the common practice of offering zero time lines. The slow down in attrition has affected all the regionals, and the better ones have mostly caught up in pilot hiring. Most people given a choice will choose a job without a contract, so Republic and SkyWest are the airlines still scrambling to hire pilots after the more desirable jobs were filled.
When I had recurrent training in mid June, I heard there would be small new hire classes through the summer and training would pick up in the fall. I heard we no longer need DECs. Envoy is constantly recalculating their staffing levels and they are not good with communication--they will keep you hanging until they need you. You probably won't hear from Envoy until 3 weeks before they have a class for you. They figure if some pilots go elsewhere, there are more waiting to take their places. It's a business. The biggest factors affecting Envoy's hiring are AA's quarterly loss and the slowdown in pilot attrition. I expect pilot hiring will continue, just not at previous rates. The people who know what is going on in the training department aren't posting on here. I know lots of people are desperate for information right now, and unfortunately, they are going to have to wait and see with the rest of us.
Sometimes in the winter Envoy offers part time lines too--work half the month for half the pay--and these went very senior among DFW captains in January and February. Zero and part time lines are a way for Envoy to save money when it suits them, but they usually continue hiring while this happens in some bases. They still have to plan to staff flying during peak travel months.
I suspect Aero Crew News made a sensational story to get attention out of the common practice of offering zero time lines. The slow down in attrition has affected all the regionals, and the better ones have mostly caught up in pilot hiring. Most people given a choice will choose a job without a contract, so Republic and SkyWest are the airlines still scrambling to hire pilots after the more desirable jobs were filled.
When I had recurrent training in mid June, I heard there would be small new hire classes through the summer and training would pick up in the fall. I heard we no longer need DECs. Envoy is constantly recalculating their staffing levels and they are not good with communication--they will keep you hanging until they need you. You probably won't hear from Envoy until 3 weeks before they have a class for you. They figure if some pilots go elsewhere, there are more waiting to take their places. It's a business. The biggest factors affecting Envoy's hiring are AA's quarterly loss and the slowdown in pilot attrition. I expect pilot hiring will continue, just not at previous rates. The people who know what is going on in the training department aren't posting on here. I know lots of people are desperate for information right now, and unfortunately, they are going to have to wait and see with the rest of us.
Skywest and Republic are not scrambling to fill classes (unfortunately) and I wish they were. The fact that they aren't is a clear indicator that the job is becoming competitive again and fogging a mirror won't cut it anymore. I know Republic and Skywest are washing people out now rather than holding their hand through training like they were before. They definately are not scrambling. I'd submit it's the better regionals where you're treated much better that are able to require contracts because pilots actually want to work there. No airport standby, no junior manning, no ready reserve, reserves being able to pluck trips from open time up to six days in advance gives the pilot a lot more control over their schedule than proffering the night before and hoping for something commutable..... all regionals are not the same,mand those saying that are liars. Those saying they're all the same, get your hours and get out are not giving good solid advice. Yes, get your hours and get out, but do it at a place that when the music stops you could stay at for an extended wait if need be. A toxic management at envoy would not be my first choice unless I lived in base at DFW or ORD. Every other base they open and close every 6-10 years. Living in base is the single biggest QOL factor there is.
AA's quarterly numbers are irrelevant to hiring at Envoy. It's the pause in hiring at EVERY legacy and major that is driving the temporary surplus at the regional level. As a result FO's are upgrading rather than focusing on moving up and out. That is why the DEC demand is reduced temporarily.
funny, almost every point you made was somehow a misinterpretation.
Last edited by Cujo665; 08-02-2024 at 01:03 AM.
08-02-2024, 03:24 AM
#319
In a land of unicorns
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Position: Whale FO
Posts: 6,598
Ah. Given the statement "this company hasn't let you drop since pre-Covid", it seemed like a blanket absolute. I admit, I'm unfamiliar with how anything is going at the other bases, and it's unfortunate that things are the way they are. I have never dropped with the 48 hour window, but did use the RF form on several occasions before they "updated" the email system. Now it seems they don't receive them at all. Calling the next day, or the daily desk the day of is a good bet to make it happen IF the reserve lists are normal, and not like they have been the last 2 months. I don't know the first thing about PBS. Some pilots say it's wonderful, while some say it's atrocious. Based on opinion ratios, I'm leaning toward it not being a good thing at all, especially in regards to OT.
It's all about work rules and building the pairings. PBS itself doesn't change the way trips are built.
08-02-2024, 07:15 AM
#320
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2022
Posts: 87
When we were revisiting PBS a few years ago, we asked all the PBS providers for some basic info. One thing they all said that in Envoys case they only expect OT to reduce between 2-4% because of PBS.
It's all about work rules and building the pairings. PBS itself doesn't change the way trips are built.
It's all about work rules and building the pairings. PBS itself doesn't change the way trips are built.
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