3 tbnt's in 3 months
08-14-2023, 09:21 PM
#41
Disinterested Third Party
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,261
Expressjet is irrelevant.
You weren't asked to resign from Expressjet.
You need to focus. You made mistakes. It cost your job. This is not an indictment on your pilot history. This is not a personal attack. You experienced a setback. Your path forward must be adjusted accordingly. This is not a career-ending moment. It's not life-altering. It's an event which does impact your journey, but temporarily.
When enroute, we encounter unforecast weather, and adjust our course, altitude, even speed, accordingly. Likewise, events occur within our control or external to it, or a combination of both, and our career is adjusted.
Some years ago, I represented an individual at a termination hearing, as a steward. This individual had been in my upgrade class, and had completed all of his events except a LOFT session; a flight from San Fransisco to LAX, with events that would occur, resulting in a return to SFO. He had created some concern during his training, and had to re-do his checkride, but passed on the second attempt, and had only the LOFT to do. He showed up to find that several check airmen were present, and he told them that he hated them, that they were all out to get him. Not a good start. Shortly after the takeoff, he was given an engine failure; the plan was to have him do a return to land and call it done. The hope was for him to end on a high note. Visibility was raised to unlimited, and he was vectors to a an ILS. He didn't call for checklists, and the check airmen in the right seat pickd up the checklist and shook it. The airman told the right seat and FE seat to work together and shut up, and leave him alone so he could fly. He managed to fly through the localizer, and ultimately crashed into the hills above Oakland. Ride over. I was contacted to come represent him at his termination hearing.
He ultimately kept his job. An agreement was reached and he moved on. It wasn't necessarily the path he'd planned, but the path he planned wasn't available. His path was adjusted, and he was able to move forward. His difficulty was self-induced. For most of us, our obstacles are self-induced, and as pilots in command (and up and coming pilots in command), we know that the very nature of our job is that we accept responsibility for the outcome of a given event. That's what we do. We own it, because we're ultimately responsible. Having done that, we press on. We can't pull over and park an airplane, and while we can do that to our career, it's unnecessary.
At this point, you must also evaluate and temper your choices for your next job. You've spoken at length about the number of applications you've sent out, many of them that would be upgrades from the position from which you just resigned. If you're let go from the regional for cause (or allowed to resign in lieu of termination), then applying to a ULCC or widebody ACMI, or major/legacy might be viewed as a tone-deaf move. A more realistic effort, given your present situation, is to look at what employment you can get, that will get you back on track. Ameriflight, for example, would be an excellent choice; it's a large operation that has significant movement and turnover, is turbine PIC flying, and would easily establish a series of successful evaluations, which is exactly what you need. Apparently this counsel, given to you by multiple posters, angers you. You don't seem to understand that what's been given to you is helpful; here, and what was given you by your stewards. They told you to move in a realistic direction. Do this.
You've also been counseled about seeking assistance on two levels; one to assist you in developing and presenting yourself and your case in subsequent applications: how to handle where you are now. You mentioned Emerald Coast, but it sounds like you haven't used them post-firing to develop the best resume, application, and answer for your case. You need to do that. Think of it as a public relations assistant. The other professional development that you need to seek involves airmanship, and this too, is critical. This isn't an indictment of you, or of expressjet, or anything else. You've spoken of lapses which occurred, multiple basic-airmanship lapses, and lapses in aircraft and systems knowledge. You'll be wise to seek an honest evaluation and then to accept any subsequent counseling, instruction, or training that might be recommended. Think of it as a personal trainer; find areas that need polishing, and then do that. These two things, a spin-doctor and a skills-clinic, are warranted, and can only benefit, and are a cheap investment in your future. Again, this counsel seems to upset you, and until you can get past the defensiveness, nobody can help you.
Nobody here has made any effort to tear you down, denigrate you, or misguide you. Neither did your stewards. It's time to stop arguing, and start listening. Those around you are offering help. You're a bit like my Irish uncle who fell in the proverbial vat of whiskey and nearly drowned, because he fought off his rescuers for a week before he finally succumbed and accepted the help. Don't be my Irish uncle.
Failure to use rudder during an engine-out situation is very much a student-pilot level issue, but it wasn't the only one.
We're not discussing your classmates. Don't deflect or try to use them. We're talking about you. If they choose to come here and discuss their training events, we can have that conversation, but this isn't about them, about expressjet, or anyone else. This is about you. Focus.
I have been, yes. Steward, business agent, chief pilot, director of maintenance, director of safety, instructor, check airman, janitor, dishwasher, scrubber of dirty cessna bellies, and a few other things. Also not particularly relevant to your case. This is about you, not about my qualifications or job. It's about your present state, and getting back on the horse. That's the landscape. Again, focus.
You weren't asked to resign from Expressjet.
You need to focus. You made mistakes. It cost your job. This is not an indictment on your pilot history. This is not a personal attack. You experienced a setback. Your path forward must be adjusted accordingly. This is not a career-ending moment. It's not life-altering. It's an event which does impact your journey, but temporarily.
When enroute, we encounter unforecast weather, and adjust our course, altitude, even speed, accordingly. Likewise, events occur within our control or external to it, or a combination of both, and our career is adjusted.
Some years ago, I represented an individual at a termination hearing, as a steward. This individual had been in my upgrade class, and had completed all of his events except a LOFT session; a flight from San Fransisco to LAX, with events that would occur, resulting in a return to SFO. He had created some concern during his training, and had to re-do his checkride, but passed on the second attempt, and had only the LOFT to do. He showed up to find that several check airmen were present, and he told them that he hated them, that they were all out to get him. Not a good start. Shortly after the takeoff, he was given an engine failure; the plan was to have him do a return to land and call it done. The hope was for him to end on a high note. Visibility was raised to unlimited, and he was vectors to a an ILS. He didn't call for checklists, and the check airmen in the right seat pickd up the checklist and shook it. The airman told the right seat and FE seat to work together and shut up, and leave him alone so he could fly. He managed to fly through the localizer, and ultimately crashed into the hills above Oakland. Ride over. I was contacted to come represent him at his termination hearing.
He ultimately kept his job. An agreement was reached and he moved on. It wasn't necessarily the path he'd planned, but the path he planned wasn't available. His path was adjusted, and he was able to move forward. His difficulty was self-induced. For most of us, our obstacles are self-induced, and as pilots in command (and up and coming pilots in command), we know that the very nature of our job is that we accept responsibility for the outcome of a given event. That's what we do. We own it, because we're ultimately responsible. Having done that, we press on. We can't pull over and park an airplane, and while we can do that to our career, it's unnecessary.
At this point, you must also evaluate and temper your choices for your next job. You've spoken at length about the number of applications you've sent out, many of them that would be upgrades from the position from which you just resigned. If you're let go from the regional for cause (or allowed to resign in lieu of termination), then applying to a ULCC or widebody ACMI, or major/legacy might be viewed as a tone-deaf move. A more realistic effort, given your present situation, is to look at what employment you can get, that will get you back on track. Ameriflight, for example, would be an excellent choice; it's a large operation that has significant movement and turnover, is turbine PIC flying, and would easily establish a series of successful evaluations, which is exactly what you need. Apparently this counsel, given to you by multiple posters, angers you. You don't seem to understand that what's been given to you is helpful; here, and what was given you by your stewards. They told you to move in a realistic direction. Do this.
You've also been counseled about seeking assistance on two levels; one to assist you in developing and presenting yourself and your case in subsequent applications: how to handle where you are now. You mentioned Emerald Coast, but it sounds like you haven't used them post-firing to develop the best resume, application, and answer for your case. You need to do that. Think of it as a public relations assistant. The other professional development that you need to seek involves airmanship, and this too, is critical. This isn't an indictment of you, or of expressjet, or anything else. You've spoken of lapses which occurred, multiple basic-airmanship lapses, and lapses in aircraft and systems knowledge. You'll be wise to seek an honest evaluation and then to accept any subsequent counseling, instruction, or training that might be recommended. Think of it as a personal trainer; find areas that need polishing, and then do that. These two things, a spin-doctor and a skills-clinic, are warranted, and can only benefit, and are a cheap investment in your future. Again, this counsel seems to upset you, and until you can get past the defensiveness, nobody can help you.
Nobody here has made any effort to tear you down, denigrate you, or misguide you. Neither did your stewards. It's time to stop arguing, and start listening. Those around you are offering help. You're a bit like my Irish uncle who fell in the proverbial vat of whiskey and nearly drowned, because he fought off his rescuers for a week before he finally succumbed and accepted the help. Don't be my Irish uncle.
But now back to the topic of Republic. Your comments regarding the mistakes I made: "That's student pilot level learning", well . . . what would you have said to my class mates at Republic with previous years flying multiengine turbines who made worse mistakes (maybe not worse than me, just my guess) where during V1 cut they did not use proper rudder placement and red screened after stalling and crashing.
We're not discussing your classmates. Don't deflect or try to use them. We're talking about you. If they choose to come here and discuss their training events, we can have that conversation, but this isn't about them, about expressjet, or anyone else. This is about you. Focus.
I have been, yes. Steward, business agent, chief pilot, director of maintenance, director of safety, instructor, check airman, janitor, dishwasher, scrubber of dirty cessna bellies, and a few other things. Also not particularly relevant to your case. This is about you, not about my qualifications or job. It's about your present state, and getting back on the horse. That's the landscape. Again, focus.
08-14-2023, 09:45 PM
#42
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2023
Posts: 49
Expressjet is irrelevant.
You weren't asked to resign from Expressjet.
You need to focus. You made mistakes. It cost your job. This is not an indictment on your pilot history. This is not a personal attack. You experienced a setback. Your path forward must be adjusted accordingly. This is not a career-ending moment. It's not life-altering. It's an event which does impact your journey, but temporarily.
You weren't asked to resign from Expressjet.
You need to focus. You made mistakes. It cost your job. This is not an indictment on your pilot history. This is not a personal attack. You experienced a setback. Your path forward must be adjusted accordingly. This is not a career-ending moment. It's not life-altering. It's an event which does impact your journey, but temporarily.
When enroute, we encounter unforecast weather, and adjust our course, altitude, even speed, accordingly. Likewise, events occur within our control or external to it, or a combination of both, and our career is adjusted.
Some years ago, I represented an individual at a termination hearing, as a steward. This individual had been in my upgrade class, and had completed all of his events except a LOFT session; a flight from San Fransisco to LAX, with events that would occur, resulting in a return to SFO. He had created some concern during his training, and had to re-do his checkride, but passed on the second attempt, and had only the LOFT to do. He showed up to find that several check airmen were present, and he told them that he hated them, that they were all out to get him. Not a good start. Shortly after the takeoff, he was given an engine failure; the plan was to have him do a return to land and call it done. The hope was for him to end on a high note. Visibility was raised to unlimited, and he was vectors to a an ILS. He didn't call for checklists, and the check airmen in the right seat pickd up the checklist and shook it. The airman told the right seat and FE seat to work together and shut up, and leave him alone so he could fly. He managed to fly through the localizer, and ultimately crashed into the hills above Oakland. Ride over. I was contacted to come represent him at his termination hearing.
Some years ago, I represented an individual at a termination hearing, as a steward. This individual had been in my upgrade class, and had completed all of his events except a LOFT session; a flight from San Fransisco to LAX, with events that would occur, resulting in a return to SFO. He had created some concern during his training, and had to re-do his checkride, but passed on the second attempt, and had only the LOFT to do. He showed up to find that several check airmen were present, and he told them that he hated them, that they were all out to get him. Not a good start. Shortly after the takeoff, he was given an engine failure; the plan was to have him do a return to land and call it done. The hope was for him to end on a high note. Visibility was raised to unlimited, and he was vectors to a an ILS. He didn't call for checklists, and the check airmen in the right seat pickd up the checklist and shook it. The airman told the right seat and FE seat to work together and shut up, and leave him alone so he could fly. He managed to fly through the localizer, and ultimately crashed into the hills above Oakland. Ride over. I was contacted to come represent him at his termination hearing.
At this point, you must also evaluate and temper your choices for your next job. You've spoken at length about the number of applications you've sent out, many of them that would be upgrades from the position from which you just resigned. If you're let go from the regional for cause (or allowed to resign in lieu of termination), then applying to a ULCC or widebody ACMI, or major/legacy might be viewed as a tone-deaf move. A more realistic effort, given your present situation, is to look at what employment you can get, that will get you back on track. Ameriflight, for example, would be an excellent choice; it's a large operation that has significant movement and turnover, is turbine PIC flying, and would easily establish a series of successful evaluations, which is exactly what you need. Apparently this counsel, given to you by multiple posters, angers you. You don't seem to understand that what's been given to you is helpful; here, and what was given you by your stewards. They told you to move in a realistic direction. Do this.
You've also been counseled about seeking assistance on two levels; one to assist you in developing and presenting yourself and your case in subsequent applications: how to handle where you are now. You mentioned Emerald Coast, but it sounds like you haven't used them post-firing to develop the best resume, application, and answer for your case. You need to do that. Think of it as a public relations assistant. The other professional development that you need to seek involves airmanship, and this too, is critical. This isn't an indictment of you, or of expressjet, or anything else. You've spoken of lapses which occurred, multiple basic-airmanship lapses, and lapses in aircraft and systems knowledge. You'll be wise to seek an honest evaluation and then to accept any subsequent counseling, instruction, or training that might be recommended. Think of it as a personal trainer; find areas that need polishing, and then do that. These two things, a spin-doctor and a skills-clinic, are warranted, and can only benefit, and are a cheap investment in your future. Again, this counsel seems to upset you, and until you can get past the defensiveness, nobody can help you.
Nobody here has made any effort to tear you down, denigrate you, or misguide you. Neither did your stewards. It's time to stop arguing, and start listening. Those around you are offering help. You're a bit like my Irish uncle who fell in the proverbial vat of whiskey and nearly drowned, because he fought off his rescuers for a week before he finally succumbed and accepted the help. Don't be my Irish uncle.
You've also been counseled about seeking assistance on two levels; one to assist you in developing and presenting yourself and your case in subsequent applications: how to handle where you are now. You mentioned Emerald Coast, but it sounds like you haven't used them post-firing to develop the best resume, application, and answer for your case. You need to do that. Think of it as a public relations assistant. The other professional development that you need to seek involves airmanship, and this too, is critical. This isn't an indictment of you, or of expressjet, or anything else. You've spoken of lapses which occurred, multiple basic-airmanship lapses, and lapses in aircraft and systems knowledge. You'll be wise to seek an honest evaluation and then to accept any subsequent counseling, instruction, or training that might be recommended. Think of it as a personal trainer; find areas that need polishing, and then do that. These two things, a spin-doctor and a skills-clinic, are warranted, and can only benefit, and are a cheap investment in your future. Again, this counsel seems to upset you, and until you can get past the defensiveness, nobody can help you.
Nobody here has made any effort to tear you down, denigrate you, or misguide you. Neither did your stewards. It's time to stop arguing, and start listening. Those around you are offering help. You're a bit like my Irish uncle who fell in the proverbial vat of whiskey and nearly drowned, because he fought off his rescuers for a week before he finally succumbed and accepted the help. Don't be my Irish uncle.
Failure to use rudder during an engine-out situation is very much a student-pilot level issue, but it wasn't the only one
It wasn't the only one. . . sorry. . . what's that??
We're not discussing your classmates. Don't deflect or try to use them. We're talking about you. If they choose to come here and discuss their training events, we can have that conversation, but this isn't about them, about expressjet, or anyone else. This is about you. Focus.
I have been, yes. Steward, business agent, chief pilot, director of maintenance, director of safety, instructor, check airman, janitor, dishwasher, scrubber of dirty cessna bellies, and a few other things. Also not particularly relevant to your case. This is about you, not about my qualifications or job. It's about your present state, and getting back on the horse. That's the landscape. Again, focus.
08-14-2023, 10:03 PM
#43
Disinterested Third Party
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,261
I re-wrote a bit of things. . . now suddenly I got a phone screen interview at a 121 carrier and an actual interview for DEC at another 121 carrier. I won't say their names for now. But yeah i'll admit, now I see i've been making wrong approaches in myself. Looks like i'm finally starting to make progress.
If this does not pan out and does not turn into an offer or a job use them as preparation for the next. After all, every job interview that doesn't become work, is merely preparation for the next.
If it does become a job, then study and prep twice as much as the next guy, and set your standard not to pass, but to impress, and treat day one of class as day one of your captain upgrade (which it will be if awarded a direct-entry position), no matter what position you're assigned. Remember that there's no such thing as non-jeopardy. Everything counts. Treat it accordingly.
08-15-2023, 01:41 PM
#44
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2014
Posts: 362
Sorry to hear but if planesense is rejecting your app, you need help from prep companies to go over your app. You are clearly not presenting yourself correctly in terms of how/why you were fired. Articulation is everything. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different out come…
08-21-2023, 09:25 AM
#45
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2023
Posts: 86
Just got a TBNT Email and to reapply in one month. Not sure what they are looking for but I have my 1,500 hours with the night, XC, and all hours for an unrestricted ATP. I have also went through my Airlineapps profile to ensure I was not missing any documents, gaps in unemployment, or anything that I think could cause the system to reject my application.
08-23-2023, 12:13 PM
#46
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2021
Posts: 367
Just got a TBNT Email and to reapply in one month. Not sure what they are looking for but I have my 1,500 hours with the night, XC, and all hours for an unrestricted ATP. I have also went through my Airlineapps profile to ensure I was not missing any documents, gaps in unemployment, or anything that I think could cause the system to reject my application.
You just hit the bare minimums. Be patient with this. If you reapply in 30 days, and you get the same response, it’s time to have someone look at your app and resume, and you may need to use an app review service. You’d be surprised what you may miss on an app until another pair of eyes looks it up and down.
08-23-2023, 12:34 PM
#47
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2023
Posts: 86
Patience is key. When did you apply? And exactly how many total hours are you at right now?
You just hit the bare minimums. Be patient with this. If you reapply in 30 days, and you get the same response, it’s time to have someone look at your app and resume, and you may need to use an app review service. You’d be surprised what you may miss on an app until another pair of eyes looks it up and down.
You just hit the bare minimums. Be patient with this. If you reapply in 30 days, and you get the same response, it’s time to have someone look at your app and resume, and you may need to use an app review service. You’d be surprised what you may miss on an app until another pair of eyes looks it up and down.
08-23-2023, 01:44 PM
#48
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2021
Posts: 367
But it could be the lack of multi time. How many multi hours do the cadets have usually? I’m only asking because I don’t know much about the cadet programs. I have a former private student who went through the cadet program and he racked up like over 400 hours of multi time even though he was at about 1500 hours total.
08-23-2023, 02:55 PM
#49
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2023
Posts: 86
That may be why they called quickly, but who knows honestly. Sometimes there can be no rhyme or reason as to why they call someone else.
But it could be the lack of multi time. How many multi hours do the cadets have usually? I’m only asking because I don’t know much about the cadet programs. I have a former private student who went through the cadet program and he racked up like over 400 hours of multi time even though he was at about 1500 hours total.
But it could be the lack of multi time. How many multi hours do the cadets have usually? I’m only asking because I don’t know much about the cadet programs. I have a former private student who went through the cadet program and he racked up like over 400 hours of multi time even though he was at about 1500 hours total.
08-23-2023, 07:22 PM
#50
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2023
Posts: 43
Just got a TBNT Email and to reapply in one month. Not sure what they are looking for but I have my 1,500 hours with the night, XC, and all hours for an unrestricted ATP. I have also went through my Airlineapps profile to ensure I was not missing any documents, gaps in unemployment, or anything that I think could cause the system to reject my application.
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