dera

Not that you really deserve a response but no, I would still be at Envoy if I really wanted to work for AA and waited to flow, as AA avoids hiring from it's own feed. Looks like I would be around 2.5 years away from flow right now. The ones who did leave around the same time I did, many of them are at AA (and even more at other legacies) right now, some just got CA awards. They beat the flow by 3-5 years while enjoying a superior QOL and money compared to staying at Envoy. Those 5000 numbers in seniority they are gaining over flows are worth a few million dollars at the end of their career.

Eagerly waiting for your next ad hominem.

Jetdriver2006

Has anyone declined the sign-on bonus? Are you marked with a bullseye, do they rescind the CJO? My fear is that I take it and then an astroid hits or something and the industry tanks. I still have a family to look out for and can’t take a furlough. Anyone on here actually turn it down?

GoesTo11

People turn it down all the time. Several in my new hire class. Can't say whether they got a bullseye painted on them. I doubt it.

Jetdriver2006

Thanks for the info!

pitchattitude

Why are you concerned about a furlough if you take the bonus? Not sure what the current language is, but has always been pay back if you choose to leave or otherwise fail to complete the required time because of your actions (training failure, fired for cause). While furlough time might not count towards fulfilling the contract obligation time, it shouldn’t trigger a repayment either. Failing to return after a furlough, however, likely would require repayment.

Take the bonus and invest it. Just don’t spend it. There have been MANY discussions about what to do if you have to pay it back and the tax ramifications.

Jetdriver2006

Thanks. The issue isn’t the furlough and having to pay it back, but getting furloughed and leaving for a job that provides for my family. I’ve made up my mind though now. One additional question though, I’ve seen that DEC’s should plan on flying all reserve days, which is fine by me. What is an avg credit for a month of DEC RSV, knowing that 75 is the guarantee?

jackpilot

You'll average 50-60 hours of actual flying per month on reserve until you get a composite line.

ClappedOut145

Meanwhile Dera is getting a month and a half off at a time, deadheading in first class all over the world, hanging out in lounges, and barely working when he goes to “work.” I’m pretty sure he’s doing better than an individual who spent his time kissing CW’s butt in the ORD CPO.

TXMike

You are on probation for a year, so somewhat easy.

Don't do stupid **** and also don't do things like your old company did them. You left <XYZ> for a reason.

Oh and please don't treat your fairly experienced MQ FO like crap either. We know the MQ way and the plane fairly well. We're happy to help make our trip easy together so we go home with no paperwork. I've been lucky and most of the DECs have been cool, but a few classmates of mine have horror stories about DECs.

A smart MQ FO is happy to have you DECs show up (as long as y'all are pretty cool). You'll keep us from ever sitting reserve when we upgrade. I usually buy the first two rounds if we go out in appreciation of this fact. (regardless of your $100k bonus)

Welcome, let's have a good trip with no paperwork.

DMH1967

I agree with several of your points explicitly. An FO in the 121 world is a REQUIRED CREWMEMBER, and should always be treated as such. I spent 18 of my 31 years in this business as an FO, so I get what you're saying. I'd like to hope the days of crusty old CAs saying "Just sit there and shut up, don't touch anything unless I tell you to," are long since passed. I was an FO in those days, and some guys were no fun to be around at all, much less to fly with.

I will add that "Don't do things the way they did it at your old company," could be said with some flex. We all collect our paycheck from Envoy Air, and should fly the airplane using the procedures the way they want. It's not our plane, it's theirs, and they pay us to do things a certain way. BUT, there are some techniques that guys like me who have spent 3 decades in this industry might have learned at other companies that are always valuable. For example: There is very little emphasis put on verifying the correct runway we've been cleared by ATC to cross, or line up on, or on looking outside the window to see if there is a plane on final. I'd hazard a guess that 90% of the FOs I'm flying, when we get a "Line up and wait" from tower, immediately go into their before takeoff flow without even looking outside to see if there is an airplane on short final for that runway. Not so long ago out of DCA we got that exact scenario...as soon as the tower cleared us into position, the FO read it back and picked up the checklist. I jumped on the radio and said, "We'll hold short." There was a plane at about 400' on short final. From my previous airline, we both had to verify verbally any runway we were given a clearance to cross the hold short line of, as well as "clear left," and "clear right" before crossing said hold line. Is that procedure here? No. Do I tell FOs they have to do it when the fly with me? No. Do I still do it myself every time? Absolutely. It's habit, and a technique that I'll never give up because I believe it's a good idea, and because everyone makes mistakes sometimes including tower controllers.

So don't discount the experience and techniques some of us still carry with us after we took an early retirement, or buyout, then decided to come back to work for a bit. As you said, nobody has to be a d!ck about any of it, and nobody should be treating anyone in the cockpit as anything other than a necessary part of the team to make things work well. There are a lot of guys in this industry who make the job a lot harder than it has to be.