Cujo665

proof that experience matters. Back during the few years they were hiring low time guys, IOE went up to over 80 hours and a few broke 100 hrs of IOE.

cr700

You've been gone what, 10 years now? And you still post here like you know what's going on. You don't have your finger on the pulse here Cuj. You just made another attempt at a false narrative. It's fake news. Sure, there were a few outliers that had in the 80ish range of OE. But the VAST majority had far, far less.

Still sounds like loads of regret on your part about not flying in a shiny AA jet.

dera

Hey, you must be Wilson because Neider actually isn't a bad guy.

cr700

Wow, this just keeps getting better. ANOTHER guy who decided the grass was greener and is ALSO now working for a lowball ACMI. Guess it's something in the water for you two. And....who also has serious regrets for making a world class mistake. You too could have been in that shiny AA jet. SMDH.

Ravenwing

In my class of 18 DECs, we lost 3 during sim training despite being given lots of extra sim time. Everyone else has now passed IOE. If it was easy they wouldn’t pay so much.

CaseTractor

50 DECs seems like a large number. Are most returning to the industry after time away, or are they from other regionals? Where are the people coming from, and if other companies are losing people, what are those companies? That’s great for Envoy, and any DEC on the list, I’m just surprised the applicant pool has not dried up yet.

Ravenwing

I think the class of 50 was from last fall, but there is still a small and steady stream of DECs coming into Envoy. There are about a hundred beneath me and I started in March.

I have spoken to some pilots who retired early during Covid, and decided to fly for Envoy for a couple years to pad their retirement accounts. I have spoken to some who flew for Mesa and wouldn’t upgrade there because they heard the training department failed people unnecessarily, but they would take a DEC job at Envoy for enough money. One GoJet DEC decided the grass was greener here, and he hadn’t gotten a bonus at GoJet. A Republic FO who thought it was unfair DECs at Republic were offered bonuses but he wasn’t, so he would rather be a captain at Envoy with the bonus. Some long haul and ACMI pilots are tired of the schedules and type of flying and nostalgic about regional flying decided to come give it another go. Some pilots left Part 121 flying for Part 135 flying, and decided the pay at Envoy was a good reason to try Part 121 flying again. Some ExpressJet pilots found something else to do after their company folded and are returning to flying at Envoy. And there are many pilots who left regional flying during the lost decade when career prospects were bleak for pay, lifestyle, or family reasons.

Overall, the motivation is money or the desire to get back into flying again. Envoy was offering jet refresher training and the opportunity to sit in the right seat for captain pay for awhile, then when you showed up for Orientation after signing a promissory note for the jet refresher, they said everyone with 1,000 hours Part 121 time was required to train as a captain.

pitchattitude

Covers most of it. The other thing is part of the same reason people choose Mainline AA over Delta or United. Location, location, location. Different people want to call different places home and those are either Envoy bases, or a more reasonable commute from where that home is.

CaseTractor

Thanks guys, good explanation.

sounds good for all and glad it is working out for so many!

pitchattitude

You know, just like everything else, you are wrong. There are LOTS of people that leave the WOs and get hired at AA long before their flow date would come up. If weren’t already in the the danger close to flow location, leaving Envoy and going almost anywhere would get you to AA in six or eight months. He certainly doesn’t need anyone else to stand up for him, but Dera made the choice that worked for him and isn’t looking back out of regret or nostalgia, but still trying to help people get perspective.

You on the other hand stay because it’s your only option. Probably know that despite the training program at AA, you’ve got your name on the dirt bag list and know you won’t make it through.